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Re: [orca-list] Important: Web accessibility survey for screen reader users

Thanks to all who took part in the survey while it was open.  Yes, all you have to do to tell them you use 
Orca is mark Other where necessary and tell them you use it in the comments section.  I only wish I'd gotten 
the word out sooner.  For the record, I for one do not think the exclusion of Orca was necessarily deliberate 
and has absolutely nothing to do with the financial interests of any screen reader vendors or producers of 
proprietary operating systems.  Otherwise, none of the Android free screen readers would've been mentioned.  
I think it has more to do with a lack of awareness.  They simply have no idea how many of us there are out 
there whose use Orca on a Linux machine.  I wanted to give some of us a chance to be heard from.  I certainly 
did not intend to pander to the conspiracy theorists out there who seem to find some sinister intent in all 
of this.  I frankly find such thinking quite ridiculous and regret giving anyone who harbors such opinions 
fodder for such things.  The Floss a11y community stands to gain far more by polite interaction with such 
organizations working under the assumption of good intent without sufficient data than we would if we 
approach them like indignant crusaders going after callous big business.   I am convinced that such an 
approach would be a massive turnoff and actually close doors for us rather than open them.

Best regards,
Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of B. Henry
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:48 AM
To: Magdalen Berns; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Important: Web accessibility survey for screen reader users

It is counter productive to not participate.
If you have not ever done this survey perhaps you are unaware that in all cases I remember there is an other 
option where you can write in orca. Perhaps my memory is not 100% correct, and there are questions where this 
is not ture, but again, I don't remember not being able to write in Orca, and speakup. 
I mention both as I use both, and i check NVDA or listed alternatives where appropriate. I  think there are 
questions where you are asked to put screenreaders in ordr of which you use most, but may be confusing this 
with other surveys. I'm really sory I didi not do this year's survey now that this has become such a topic of 
interest here as having more people mentioning Orca and friendswould likely have more impact.
I don't remember if write ins such as Orca are mentioned by name in the published results or not, or if 
"other" is just shown as such lumpiing all write-ins together. 
I seem to recall that there is an overview or results as well as a detailed results presentation. They also 
showed trends comparing where they compared 
current results to past years with some analysis.     

-- 
     B.H.
   Registerd Linux User 521886


  Magdalen Berns wrote:
Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 05:28:01PM +0100


     I doubt very much the authors of this survey are part of some world wide
     conspiracy against Orca or open source software.

   Me too but with that said there are some situations where
   industry/institutions have reason to endorse one product over another. DSA
   assessment centres in the UK are a bit "unmotivated" by free software
   alternatives, for example. It happens...
   In any case, you certainly have a point in that products like Orca do not
   always come to the attention of those who may benefit from learning about
   it so I don't see the harm in anyone getting in touch with an organisation
   like WebAim to let them know what's great about Orca (or with filling out
   their survey either - as long as they are willing to share the findings by
   publishing them with everyone else in an accessible way) but good in that
   idea.
   Anyway, I just wanted to say that it's great to see people invested in
   getting the word out there in any shape or form, really. I hope people
   continue to bring great ideas like this up! The more people helping to
   promote GNOME as a credible accessible alternative to proprietary
   offerings, the better!
   Thanks,
   Magdalen
    

     I think it's much more likely that it was just over looked or that
     Linux/Orca just isn't used by enough people, at least with some actual
     statistics, to merit inclusion in this list. ChromeVox is new, and is
     the screen reder for ChromeOS and ChromeBooks, so I'm not surprised it's
     on the list, at least for now. I'd suggest doing what I did and
     including Orca on the survey yourself as an other or in the write in
     comments.

     On 07/27/2015 07:18 AM, kendell clark wrote:

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       hi
       This is definitely possible. I was talking with some people on the
       talking arch channel and we were all wondering why orca didn't get a
       mention. After all, chromevox is on the list, and that barely
       qualifies as a screen reader. It's more of an application specific
       reader, which ... well, whether it counts or not is debatable I guess.
       I think it all boils down to the blind government agencies, of which
       this web accessibility thing is probably associated with, conveniently
       forgetting to give linux any mentions at all. I've noticed this a lot,
       but I don't have an answer. My cinical side thinks it's some plot to
       make windows and apple invaluable, while the rest of me has no idea.
       Thanks
       Kendell clark

       kk wrote:

         Hi all. orca is indeed being used in India extensively, specially
         in the south. And I think this is deliberate social engineering by
         some exploitative proprietary mafia which wants people to have
         another reason not to use a free OS. Given that NVDA gets a mention
         at all the places, it being open source, then why not Orca? The
         reason is very simple, you still need proprietary OS and other
         proprietary software with NVDA right? But Linux is free as in
         freedom and to a great extent as in free of cost. So they want to
         defeate the very social purpose. Happy hacking. Krishnakant.

         On Monday 27 July 2015 01:03 PM, Trenton Matthews wrote:

           hmmm. Fewer usrs? Nah. Small community, definitely.

           As for it not being on the survey, (which i think is closed now,)
           I wonder the reason why Orca isn't on the list, is because it
           doesn't get enough press. Same with Supernova and Cobra on
           Windows for that matter...

           On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:09 AM, _mallory
           <[1]stommepoes stommepoes nl <mailto:[2]stommepoes stommepoes nl>>
           wrote:

           On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 09:17:52AM -0500, Alex Midence wrote:

             I wanted to pass this link along to you guys so the Orca

           community is more represented in these things so, I’m terribly
           sorry about the cross posting.  This is a survey conducted by
           Webaim to find out how accessible screen reader users think the
           internet is.  What bugs me is that they mention nearly all
           screen readers except for Orca.  Last time I mentioned it to
           them, they said it was because they didn’t think anyone used it
           much so, they didn’t include it.  Chromevox was there though
           which I would argue has fewer users than Orca does.

             [3]http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey6/

           Jared even made a snarky comment about Orca users:
           [4]https://twitter.com/jared_w_smith/status/618529195761668096

           It would be nice to know if Orca is more heavily represented in
           countries like India and Brazil, because I'm pretty sure the
           WebAIM surveys are very Western-biased, where having a Windows
           machine is often an automatic default.

           _mallory _______________________________________________
           orca-list mailing list [5]orca-list gnome org
           <mailto:[6]orca-list gnome org>
           [7]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
           [8]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
           manual is at
           [9]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

       The FAQ is at [10]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

           Log bugs and feature requests at [11]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
           Find
           out how to help at [12]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

           _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
           list [13]orca-list gnome org
           [14]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
           [15]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
           manual is at
           [16]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

       The FAQ is at [17]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

           Log bugs and feature requests at [18]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
           Find
           out how to help at [19]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

         _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
         list [20]orca-list gnome org
         [21]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
         [22]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
         manual
         is at
         [23]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

       The FAQ is at [24]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

         Log bugs and feature requests at [25]http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
         out
         how to help at [26]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

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       _______________________________________________
       orca-list mailing list
       [27]orca-list gnome org
       [28]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
       Visit [29]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
       The manual is at
       [30]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
       The FAQ is at [31]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
       Log bugs and feature requests at [32]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
       Find out how to help at [33]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

     --
     Christopher (CJ)
     chaltain at Gmail
     _______________________________________________
     orca-list mailing list
     [34]orca-list gnome org
     [35]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
     Visit [36]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
     The manual is at
     [37]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
     The FAQ is at [38]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
     Log bugs and feature requests at [39]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
     Find out how to help at [40]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

References

   Visible links
   1. mailto:stommepoes stommepoes nl
   2. mailto:stommepoes stommepoes nl
   3. http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey6/
   4. https://twitter.com/jared_w_smith/status/618529195761668096
   5. mailto:orca-list gnome org
   6. mailto:orca-list gnome org
   7. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
   8. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
   9. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  10. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  11. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
  12. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  13. mailto:orca-list gnome org
  14. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  15. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
  16. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  17. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  18. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
  19. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  20. mailto:orca-list gnome org
  21. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  22. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
  23. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  24. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  25. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
  26. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  27. mailto:orca-list gnome org
  28. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  29. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
  30. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  31. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  32. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
  33. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
  34. mailto:orca-list gnome org
  35. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  36. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
  37. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
  38. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
  39. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
  40. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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