Re: [orca-list] [Support] linux on desktop

From: kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>
To: Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com>, Kyle <kyle gmx ca>, "support sonargnulinux com" <support sonargnulinux com>, Orca-list <ORCA-LIST gnome org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>
Subject: Re: [orca-list] [Support] linux on desktop
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:23:52 -0600

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hi
This sounds like inconsistencies in focus mode, rather than an
argument for it needing to be pulled out altogether. Myself, I
personally find it very useful, as long as it *does not*, as you say,
jump all over tha page, which it will sometimes do. Maybe there are
still bugs taht need sorting? I'm surprised as well, usually you're
positive about linux. I'd happily switch to an alternative browser, if
there were one available. But there isn't, so I'll use what we have
Thanks
Kendell clark
On 11/11/2014 07:33 AM, Peter Vágner wrote:

Hello, This conversation makes me embarassed. I think this focus
mode thingy should be moved to the orca list. I do like this
feature and I was under an impression many of you find it usefull
at least messages posted to the orca list on august were mainly 
positive. For sure it contributed to increased performance we can
currently enjoy while using orca with mozilla products. Should
heuristic to automagically pass keys through be added back into 
orca disabling focus vs browse mode switching all together
effectivelly reverting a bunch of related commits from orca 3.14 to
decrease differences between orca 3.12 and orca 3.14? Or is this
something we just need to explain better like some people have
asked? Is there something else we can do in order to help minimize
level of frustration you have just expressed? I have always
considered you Kyle as an expert when it comes to things we are
discussing at these lists mainly sonar gnu linux support list and 
orca list and you have always been posting loads of usefull tips,
howtos and similar usefull material. Hearing such strong arguments
from you I am really afraid something is going wrong. I also feel
somewhat responsible for this as I was one of strong supporters and
advocates of the focus vs browse mode related features. I have been
posting loads of ideas how I think it might work before Joanie has
implemented it. You know you are linux native user and I am only
using it for some two and a half years now with more than 10 years
with previous background in windows. Or hopefully this is only a
coincidence that this feature proposal has been implemented and I
might not be responsible for what you are feeling now. I really
don't know and this is why I have said I'm embarassed at the
beginning of this message.

What do you guys and girls think?

Greetings

Peter

On 10.11.2014 at 14:53 Kyle wrote:

I remember attempting to use Firefox with NVDA on Windows. Beep
beep beep busy busy busy, and dynamic content doesn't work due to
virtual buffering. Frankly I constantly cursed at my computer the
last time I tried to use Windows, but my Linux experience has
been far less of a cursing session, as things just work as
expected. Sure there are some inconsistencies in something as
complicated as a browser with all kinds of diverse websites, but
for the most part, my experience has been far better than
anything I tried to use on a Windows-based machine. To be quite
honest though, I have been struggling far more with Firefox and 
Orca now that this focus mode has been added. I am far less
productive on websites now, and find myself going all over the
page when I'm just trying to type in a textbox. So the attempt to
make Linux browsing more like Windows is certainly a #EpicFail,
at least for my own uses. Yes, I'll come right out and say it. I
hate focus mode, and wish it had never been implemented. But
Windows users seem to love it, and to this day, I just can't
figure out why. It was one thing I certainly didn't miss when I
started using Firefox with Orca, and I want the old behavior
back.

Regarding making Jaws for Ubuntu, I really hope they don't. Jaws
was certainly the worst screen reading application I ever had
the displeasure of using, and it's certainly the most expensive
also. If anyone is going to port any Windows screen reader to
Linux, I would prefer NVDA to be ported. The other stuff is pure
crap, and isn't worth my time or money. I don't like virtual
buffers for the browser though, and in fact whereas I hate focus
modes, I curse virtual buffers down to the ground, so I likely
would never use NVDA for Linux. Worse still, NVDA doesn't even
read most Windows applications very well, so I'm not at all sure
how it would handle Linux applications. Believe it or not, Linux
actually has a far greater percentage of applications that
mostly work with Orca than Windows has that work with NVDA, so I
really don't think such a port would work that much better than
Orca already does.


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References:
- Re: [orca-list] [Support] linux on desktop
  - From: Peter Vágner

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