Re: [orca-list] [Support] linux on desktop

[Krishnakant Mane <krmane gmail com>]

I remember a lot of discussions on this list about focus mode vs browse 
mode.
I was clear with some aspects and unclear about some, like for example 
when to have Orca set the modes automatically during the tab and shif + 
tab key or during structural navigation.
Was wondering how the performance has increased and how I can get 
maximum bennifits.  This too was cleared later on.
I think a few things may still not be clear to people and for one thing, 
i never thought the way Orca handles pages is some thing like JAWS's 
forms mode.
The structural navigation with modes which can be made sticky in a 
non-vertual (real-time ) browsing environment is a really great feature 
and I just loved it.
Forms mode as I have herd it is plan old black and white stuff where 
either u r in a mode where you have to type into a box and stuff and 
browsing mode is where you can't do the same.
In Orca I see things can be combined in various ways and that too in a 
real browser not vertual buffers.
So, this does not really sound bad at all.
Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.environment is far better than JAWS or any screen reader 
which does use buffered view or virtual view.
On 11/11/2014 07:03 PM, Peter Vágner wrote:
> Hello,
> This conversation makes me embarassed.
> I think this focus mode thingy should be moved to the orca list.
> I do like this feature and I was under an impression many of you find 
> it usefull at least messages posted to the orca list on august were 
> mainly positive.
> For sure it contributed to increased performance we can currently 
> enjoy while using orca with mozilla products.
> Should heuristic to automagically pass keys through be added back into 
> orca disabling focus vs browse mode switching all together 
> effectivelly reverting a bunch of related commits from orca 3.14 to 
> decrease differences between orca 3.12 and orca 3.14?
> Or is this something we just need to explain better like some people 
> have asked?
> Is there something else we can do in order to help minimize level of 
> frustration you have just expressed?
> I have always considered you Kyle as an expert when it comes to things 
> we are discussing at these lists mainly sonar gnu linux support list 
> and orca list and you have always been posting loads of usefull tips, 
> howtos and similar usefull material.
> Hearing such strong arguments from you I am really afraid something is 
> going wrong. I also feel somewhat responsible for this as I was one of 
> strong supporters and advocates of the focus vs browse mode related 
> features. I have been posting loads of ideas how I think it might work 
> before Joanie has implemented it. You know you are linux native user 
> and I am only using it for some two and a half years now with more 
> than 10 years with previous background in windows.
> Or hopefully this is only a coincidence that this feature proposal has 
> been implemented and I might not be responsible for what you are 
> feeling now. I really don't know and this is why I have said I'm 
> embarassed at the beginning of this message.
>
> What do you guys and girls think?
>
> Greetings
>
> Peter
>
> On 10.11.2014 at 14:53 Kyle wrote:
> > I remember attempting to use Firefox with NVDA on Windows. Beep beep
> > beep busy busy busy, and dynamic content doesn't work due to virtual
> > buffering. Frankly I constantly cursed at my computer the last time I
> > tried to use Windows, but my Linux experience has been far less of a
> > cursing session, as things just work as expected. Sure there are some
> > inconsistencies in something as complicated as a browser with all kinds
> > of diverse websites, but for the most part, my experience has been far
> > better than anything I tried to use on a Windows-based machine. To be
> > quite honest though, I have been struggling far more with Firefox and
> > Orca now that this focus mode has been added. I am far less productive
> > on websites now, and find myself going all over the page when I'm just
> > trying to type in a textbox. So the attempt to make Linux browsing more
> > like Windows is certainly a #EpicFail, at least for my own uses. Yes,
> > I'll come right out and say it. I hate focus mode, and wish it had never
> > been implemented. But Windows users seem to love it, and to this day, I
> > just can't figure out why. It was one thing I certainly didn't miss when
> > I started using Firefox with Orca, and I want the old behavior back.
> >
> > Regarding making Jaws for Ubuntu, I really hope they don't. Jaws was
> > certainly the worst screen reading application I ever had the
> > displeasure of using, and it's certainly the most expensive also. If
> > anyone is going to port any Windows screen reader to Linux, I would
> > prefer NVDA to be ported. The other stuff is pure crap, and isn't worth
> > my time or money. I don't like virtual buffers for the browser though,
> > and in fact whereas I hate focus modes, I curse virtual buffers down to
> > the ground, so I likely would never use NVDA for Linux. Worse still,
> > NVDA doesn't even read most Windows applications very well, so I'm not
> > at all sure how it would handle Linux applications. Believe it or not,
> > Linux actually has a far greater percentage of applications that mostly
> > work with Orca than Windows has that work with NVDA, so I really don't
> > think such a port would work that much better than Orca already does.
>
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