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Re: [orca-list] Changing the keybindings to be JAWS-like or NVDA-like (was Re: In Search Of The Main Developers Of Orca)

I am sorry but I must confess that I did not read almost any of the previous messages on this topic as so many posts usually fall under people trying to argue why others should learn their preferred standard. As many might already know, this never works terribly well.
However, by accident I read the message below and I agree with something like this. The idea of letting Orca keep its key bindings as default, but having an easy way for people to switch to another standard without having to program each key combination manually, is wonderful.
As someone who has been involved in training, I must say, that even if not all keys were to match, just having many key strokes in common would really help beginners with previous experience on another screen reader. It helps and it also keeps the FOSS tradition of placing the user in the position of making the choice.
Having said all that, Joanie probably has a significant list of tasks with higher priority than this. I do not really know, but it may very well be the case that this is not as urgent as some other Orca need. 

Fernando






On 05/13/2014 06:38 PM, ryunoki openmailbox org wrote:

Hello all,

Joanie, what about moving the keybinding configuration into a separate
file and add an option to orca, to read it?
This way, only said keybinding configuration file would be have to
exchanged in order to bind different key patterns for Orca.

I can imagine that someone would write a file for the known screenreader
(JAWS, NVSA, JFW, Windows Eye, VoiceOver, …) over time.

The default one should be the current Orca keybinding, though.

And everyone's happy <smile>

André

Am 13.05.2014 22:24, schrieb B. Henry:
This would not be fair to the many people who have been using Orca for days, weeks, months or years and are comfortable with current Orca keybindings and may not know NVDA keystrokes well if at all. I think the orca project was first officially released in 2006, so actually there'd be a case for telling the NVDA devs to sync to ORCA 
standards...lol
Jaws was around before either project, and has the largest user base of any screenreader, especially when you include the many who use illegal copies of this software. It is truly a wonderful thing that Orca and NVDA have given blind persons viable alternatives that are free. On the rare occasions when I use windows I use NVDA almost exclusively because I prefer it to the pricy alternatives because of how it works independent of price, but no, I do not have a spare $1000 U.S. for a screenreader at this point in my life. My greatest respects to NVDA devs, NV Access as a project, and NVDA th 
screenreader.
Joanmarie and others involved with Orca and Linux accessibility have even a harder job than that of the NVDA guys, and since I don't have good&concise words to say what Orca and accessible Linux mean to me and so many others I'll just send 
a big virtual hug for now.
I have been using Orca for almost four years myself having used both NVDA and JAWS first. I did not find the transission difficult at all as far as I remember. The biggest difference I remember between the three screen-readers mentioned here was the way numpad keys are used to review the screenbetween NVDA and JFW. It took me a few weeks to get "muscle memory. working for NVDA's object navigation after having used jaws for a year or more. While object navigation no longer works as it did in NVDA, nvda review and Orca review are rather more similar than are NVDA and jaws numpad functions. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I was on the original rather high traffic NVDA mailing list. Every few weeks, and in some cases relatively more frequently, there would be a conversation thread regarding making NVDA keystrokes more like 
jaws or changing some specific keystroke to that used by jaws.
As others have mentioned here each screenreader has its own set of features and accompanying strengths and weaknesses, and 
actually each screenreader has its own phiosophy and goals.
I do not know what actual percentages are, much less how things are trending, but there's no doubt that many Linux/Orca users first used Windows. Some of those users actually made the move to Linux and Orca because of the high price of Window-eyes,Jaws, etc., but many more were visuallly impaired while using Windows and used JFW, NVDA, WE or some other windows screenreader. There are also Orca users who have never used Windows screenreaders who never used Windows as their #1OS. Then there is VoiceOver. I've never used VO, but I know that Mac and VO keystrokes are yet another kettle of fish as 
it were.
While one would certainly please some of the folks moving from Windows screenreaders by changing some keystrokes, ther would be another set of Orca users who would be confused, slowed down and or annoyed at such a change. It might have been nice if sometime more than a decade ago if there'd been a universal convention on screenreader keystroke standardazition, but it did not happen, and it's not going to happen now. There are differences between the OS's/GUIs that would also make syncing things between a windows, mac and LInux screenreader less than perfect, and 
customizing one's Orca keystrokes is very easy.
If someone wanted to make a set of key-bindings thaat was as much like NVDA keystrokes as possible and upload the file somewhere they could ppublish a link to said file on websites and mailing lists frequented by Orca users, and for that matter, assuming it's as easy to do siilar keymap changes etc with NVDA and JFW they could make Jaws keybindings for Orca users, might be nice for those who don't want to use windows but sometimes must for work, or run it in a VM for some bit 
of software that's not accessible under Linux GUIs.
I kind of think this is a big waste of time though as blind ppl are just as able to learn a few new keystrokes as anyone. Tell chrome to copy all firefox keybindings, VLC to copy winamp, or similar; and would the socially consious/loving powers that be over at Freedom Scientific try and say that their keybindings are proprietary and try and get royalties out of Gnome for copying them? Don't forget that for every good idea that makes it to market there's at least one lawyer that comes along to try and ruin it, so, if this is a good idea it may be dangerous. 
Peace,
--
B.H.



On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 06:45:17PM +0100, Bhavya shah wrote:

Hey, Christopher Cholton Sir,
Since there are so many Orca developers on this group itself only
someone will have to step forward to help.
Orca and NVDA both have their advantages and disadvantages. I am only
suggesting the key bindings be made similar for the comfort of new
users. Please interested developers step forward to make the necessary
changes if other users have no issues.
Please write Orca users if you would not want this change of key
bindings. If you would like this change please write onlist so that
devs can show up as well.

  > As an ex-Windows user I would love to point out features that Orca

lacks or need to be implemented.
Also, can someone please explain what is this IAccessible2 and how
can it be beneficil?

On 5/13/14, Jason White <jason jasonjgw net> wrote:

Luke Yelavich <themuso ubuntu com> wrote:


Are there any apps that offer IAccessible2 on *nix?.


No, as far as I am aware, there aren't any.
Either way, a better approach would be to write an IAccessible2 wrapper for at-spi or atk, something similar to what java atk wrapper does now.
It has been done for Microsoft's User Interface Automation API under Mono, 
for use with applications written in C#.
I'm not aware of any application that would be portable, which supports IAccessible2 and which might be run under Linux/UNIX, so I'm not sure that 
there are any use cases to justify doing the work.
In the case of Java and Mono, the environments were specifically designed 
to
be available under multiple operating systems and we really need those
bridges
to ATK.

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--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Contact Details:
E-mail address: bhavya shah125 gmail com
Skype username: bhavya.09


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html 
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


--
Sent from my F123. http://F123.org/en
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