Re: [orca-list] [Bug 726166] Orca does not read title-attributes of abbr-tags

["Albert Sten-Clanton" <albert e sten_clanton verizon net>]

Peter, thanks for the clarification.  What you say seems to make very good
sense.

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Vágner [mailto:pvdeejay gmail com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 6:29 AM
To: Albert Sten-Clanton; 'Andre Jaenisch'; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] [Bug 726166] Orca does not read title-attributes of
abbr-tags

Hello,
I am sorry about my previous maybe somewhat misleading message on this
topic.
I have to stress that I agree with the proposed behaviour.
What I am suggesting is that orca should optionally provide a feature which
would indicate an abbreviation is actually expanded there. So I don't wish
it to speak the expanded abbreviation just the fact abbreviation is there.
For example when you are reading a news site you may hear something like
"Word news link, mobile news link, security news link"
The words link however are not visually written on the page. They are there
to report the control role to the visually disabled people so if they have
focused that control they can use the enter key to act on the control. Of
course there are other more complex controls we can interact with.
By knowing an abbreviation is there the seperate issue is then how to expand
that abbreviation on demand.

Greetings

Peter



On 12.03.2014 21:17, Albert Sten-Clanton wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> First, as before, apologies in advance if I'm somehow missing the 
> point.  If I am more or less on the mark, though, I hope the following
will help.
> When I use a sighted reader, I want that person to tell me exactly 
> what is on the page or computer screen.  I don't ordinarily ask for 
> reading every punctuation mark, but I want the reader to say what is 
> there and not interpret it for me -- unless I have a particular 
> understanding with a certain reader, as I sometimes do.  Therefore, if 
> the page or screen says "e.g." or "i.e.", for example, that is what I want
the person to read aloud:
> I do not want the person to substitute the words these shorthands are for.
> This can be vital if I am taking verbatum notes, which I occasionally do.
> That sort of precision may also be necessary if, say, I need to point 
> some other person to a place on a page or site:  I want to know that 
> what I tell the person is there is actually there, or we may lose time 
> sorting out the differences in what we perceive.  I know that there 
> are a few very common abbreviations that at least some screen readers 
> pronounce as the word being abbreviated, so I'm not proposing an 
> absolute bar, but even those at times need to be checked:  for 
> example, sometimes the page or site really does say "doctor," not 
> "dr.," and too many word stand-ins for abbreviations may force you to 
> slow down and take more care than the thing probably deserves in that way.
>
> I hope that is useful.  I'm sorry it is not written with more craft.  
> Feel free to tell me anything you think is wrong with what I've written.
>
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Jaenisch [mailto:ryunoki openmailbox org]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:35 PM
> To: Peter Vágner; orca-list gnome org; 
> albert e sten_clanton verizon net
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] [Bug 726166] Orca does not read 
> title-attributes of abbr-tags
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanks for your replies, Peter and Albert.
>
> Look, I'm sighted user and want consider this from an editor point of
view.
> That is, in my mind I _think_ "that is" when _reading" _i.e._ Naively 
> I'd say, that Braille should match, what readers read and speech 
> output should be, what would be read out.
>
> So here's a split.
>
> Thinking about it, I'd come with a solution similar to Meter's:
> speaking the title-value and then offer a choice, which one to print 
> literally (since both values are there). So a switch would be needed here.
>
> But I'm new to Orca and AT in general. JavaScript could easily get the 
> value of the title-attribute, but I have to dig into the code, to 
> figure out, how Orca can access it ?
>
> Regards
>
>
> André
>
> Am 12.03.2014 15:01, schrieb Peter Vágner:
> > Hello,
> > When reading a webpage and orca is about to present a link it reads 
> > its text and then anounces the control role. That's the information 
> > this is a link. This is brailled also.
> > I think expected behaviour is to anounce these abbreviations the same 
> > way. And info about getting the title is trickier because these are 
> > not focusable so can't be queried using where am I feature of orca. 
> > If there is indeed a way on how to present this the abbr title 
> > property should be mapped into a control description.
> >
> > Hopefully I haven't forgotten about possible breaking edge cases.
> >
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Peter
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