[orca-list] orca-list - sonar mate alpha image in the works

From: kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>
To: "Alex H." <linuxx64 bashsh gmail com>, "B. Henry" <burt1iband gmail com>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: [orca-list] orca-list - sonar mate alpha image in the works
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:43:46 -0500

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hi

sonar *will* have an accessible dm, when one of the following two
things happen. Either lightdm's gtk3 greeter with the accessibility
fixed moves to community, no idea when that will happen, it's
currently in the aur. Or, we get mdm, mint display manager, to talk. I
think it's built on gdm2, so it theoretically should be possible,
assuming mint didn't rip out the accessibility, which is always
possible. I'm building a mate alpha image now, and assuming it boots,
installs, and comes up talking, the last 2 did not, I'll see if
johnathon can upload it for people to test.  It's using lxdm for now,
which doesn't talk. It's one of the login managers the graphical
installer knows how to tell to automatically login.
Sorry for the long email, and the off topic post. I'll change the subject.
Thanks
                Kendell clark

On 08/16/2014 07:17 PM, Alex H. wrote:

Yeah, but can someone just make a sort of bigger version of DSL
that has CLI and GUI and doesn't suffer from bloat and ...
vinuxyishness? 500megs or less, orca, whatever the litest GUI thing
that works w/Orca, no neckbearding needed? Thinking of a small
rescue disk that's primarily CLI and not GRML.

On 8/16/14, B. Henry <burt1iband gmail com> wrote:

It is not that hard to make a custom installer once you have
configured things as you like, e.g. installed fluxbox and its
dependencies. You can switch from one desktop to another assuming
sonar has an accessible DM, and it'd be pretty easy to set up as
to get the nicest accessible fluxbox I know of several mate 
packages and their deps are installed. I use caja to get me a
orca readable desktop for instance, and caja is mate's default
file manager. I use pcmanfm as my file manager because of its
superior performance, better than windows xp's filemanager,
windows explorer I think it's called. That is lxde's default file
manager, but you want the version from git, pcmanfm-git I'm 
pretty sure it is called on arch/manjaro. I know it is a bit
scarey for some people to think about the configuration required
to get all of this working well, but it is actually pretty easy,
and I can give you very specific instructions if you want to go
this route.

Hopefully with in a few months I'll have a screenreader friendly
fluxbox setup in the Arch-Linux AUR, so with something like
packer or yaourt you will be able to install everything with a
single pacman-like command, i.e. pacman -Syu and then packer -S
what-ever-I-call-the-package No help today, but something to look
forward to. Storm already hs ratpoison accessibility stuff
packaged, so you only need to add the accessibility variable
export stuff and run a couple of commands to get things
screenreader friendly, see his email in this thread regarding
this. Unless you are very memory tight Mate should be plently
light, and it is enough more accessible compared with lxde to
make it a much better choice if you can run it. XFCE is about as
accessible as lxde, maybe a bit better actually, (not tried lxde
recently to say for sure), and on most systems uses less memory
than mate, but as far as cpu goes there's no big advantage either
way. At least one person, maybe a significant minority of users,
report using less ram with mate than they do with XFCE. All I 
read however, and personal experience tell me that xfce's lighter
on memory usage than Mate. As they often say, "your mileage maly
vary,"... -- B.H.


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:28:35PM +0430, Hadi Rezaee wrote:

I wish there was a distro, (based on manjaro) that had a very
lighweight desktop manager. Extremeley lightweight with minimum
packages, so i could boot it from my USB flash and take it with
me around. Sonar apparently is working on a mate-based distro,
But i know many lighter desktops also exists.

On 8/16/2014 10:47 PM, B. Henry wrote:

Thanks for sharing the link. More later, but quickly,
although the menu's not accessible in fluxbox, there is no
menu at all for rat-poison. In either one though, as
mentioned in my prev post in this thread, you can make a
shortcut to open a filemanager in /usr/share/applications/ 
and pressing enter on the .desktop files in there will launch
the programs they refference in their exec lines. Usually the
program has same name as the .desktop file, but not always. I
have used this technique in flluxbox with the super,
(windowskey to some), plus a as the shortcut. The line in my
~/.fluxbox/keys file reading: Mod4 a :Exec pcmanfm
/usr/share/applications/ Note that Mod4 is what the windows
or super key is called by many *nix configuration files, and
Mod1 is alt. Ratpoison has a keybinding to show you all the
hotkeys that are configured, so in a sense this is a app menu
substitute.

The big drawback to ratpoison for me is the two key
combination keybindings. As Storm says, it's like screen, or
emacs if you wish, i.e. control-t plus something instead of
having Control-m do something. I find it rather inconvenient
and just plain rhythm destroying to have to press two key
combinations to launch programs, show the desktop or what
ever instead of just typi9ing one combiinationm, e.g. alt
super m to launch mangler, alt super w to launch my default
x-www-browser, etc. For others this would not be a bother, or
not much of one. Both window managers are very fast, small,
and thrifty with system resources in general. Ratpoison's
even smaller/lighter than fluxbox, but not noticeablly
faster here. They both have atractive features and are quite
stable. I do find fluxbox more flexible, and generally more
feature rich, but there's plenty good to say about 
ratpoison. Again, more later. Oh, you can make a .sh file in
/etc/profile.d/ and put the GTK_MODULES line in it, andf same
with the QT setting, but in a file called
qt-accessibility.sh. Having those files should mean that any 
user will have the access stuff for these kits working, and
if you use a dm that doesn't use .xinitrc file in your home 
dir you -- B.H.

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:55:16AM -0400, Storm Dragon
wrote:

Hi, this is still very much a work in progress. It's
designed to replace the inaccessible bits of ratpoison,
which is about as fast as you can get and still have access
to X. git clone
https://github.com/stormdragon2976/strychnine.git You'll
have to point to the items in the git directiory in your 
.ratpoisonrc or add them to fluxbox. If you absolutely have
to have a desktop, you can install caja and add caja -n to
the .ratpoisonrc. Ratpoison works a lot like screen, I find
it very easy to use. Fluxbox was pretty cool too, but the
menu isn't accessible, which is a bit of a drawback. In
ratpoison, if you need a tray for apps that only work if 
there's a panel or tray present, try trayer. I only have
one app that requires it, and it's a QT app, so I'm not
sure how accessible it is. It does say panel when focus
lands on it though, so maybe... If you're setting up mate,
fluxbox, or ratpoison, here's a quick reference of things
you will want to do to make the best accessible experience.
Note these instructions work on Arch Linux. I'm not sure 
where .xinitrc is on other distros like Ubuntu or Vinux. In
~/.xinitrc, make sure you have the line: export
GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge

In your ~/.bashrc: export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1

In terminal type: gsettings set
org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled 
true

And finally, if you chose Mate: gsettings set
org.mate.interface accessibility true

HTH Storm On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:23:57AM -0500, Burt
Henry wrote:

no panels, can't remember about desktop icons. Mate is a
lot heavier than lxde, but light compared with unity or
kde, and much cpu less intensive than gnome3 and very 
accessible with a few glitches. XFCE may be a bit better
than lxde, but very similar, and if you can do with out
accessible panels and can do with out an organized apps
menu you can go super lightweight with fluxbox. In
fluxbox assign keuyboard shortcuts to the programs you
use most, launch caja to get desktop icons, (use the -n
option when auto starting it in the fluxbox start-up
file), and assign a key to open the applications dir in
/usr/share to get a way to launch any app you don't have
a shortcut for and do not remember exact name for. Also
Stormdragon wrote a little  script to replace the run box
app that's not accessible for fluxbox, ratpoison and 
similar. I don't have his original, but do have my
slightly hacked version of this I can send, or look in
archives for the url to get his version. Build from
source if not able to get latest fluxbox on your debian
based distro, it's in repos for arch. I can help more
with the fluxbox configuration if you are interested, and
maybe it'll get better out of the box with in a 
reasonable time frame, some dev interest. OAll of the
above mentioned options require exporting gtk modules
and setting qt accessiblity at least as well as a couple 
things for gconf  for mate anyway, same gets stuff
working for fluxbox. I can send you some links and or
notes later if you need. -- B.H.

There are a couple more hacks for fluxbox. On Sat, Aug
16, 2014 at 08:06:43AM -0700, austinAustin quesada
wrote:

Hi list. Was just wondering if the light-weight LXDE
environment is accessible using orca? I have some older
machines laying around that might benefit from a debian
or arch install with LXDE. If it's not particularly
accessible, could anyone advise on another
light-weight desktop? Thanks for any feedback. 
_______________________________________________ 
orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on
Orca. The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. 
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


-- Powered by Arch Linux! I am registered Linux user number
508465: https://linuxcounter.net/user/508465.html My blog,
Thoughts of a Dragon: http://www.stormdragon.tk/ get my
public PGP key: gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 
43DDC193 Follow me on Pump.io:
http://microca.st/stormdragon2976 "It's not our aim to hum,
to aspirate, to perish tardily. It's our goal to be, and to
become, and to rise constantly." Van Canto - Quest for
Roar

_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. 
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org 
Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org 
Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual
is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

Follow-Ups:
- Re: [orca-list] orca-list - sonar mate alpha image in the works
  - From: D. A. H.

References:
- [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: austinAustin quesada
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: B. Henry
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: Storm Dragon
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: B. Henry
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: Hadi Rezaee
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: B. Henry
- Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?
  - From: Alex H.

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