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Re: [orca-list] Accessibility of LXDE desktop?

It is not that hard to make a custom installer once you have configured things as you like, e.g. installed 
fluxbox and  
its dependencies. You can switch from one desktop to another assuming sonar has an accessible DM, and it'd be 
pretty easy 
to set up as to get the nicest accessible fluxbox I know of several mate packages and their deps are 
installed. 
I use caja to get me a orca readable desktop for instance, and caja is mate's default file manager. 
I use pcmanfm as my file manager because of its superior performance, better than windows xp's filemanager, 
windows 
explorer I think it's called. That is lxde's default file manager, but you want the version from git, 
pcmanfm-git I'm 
pretty sure it is called on arch/manjaro.
I know it is a bit scarey for some people to think about the configuration required to get all of this 
working well, but 
it is actually pretty easy, and I can give you very specific instructions if you want to go this route. 

Hopefully with in a few months I'll have a screenreader friendly fluxbox setup in the Arch-Linux AUR, so with 
something 
like packer or yaourt you will be able to install everything with a single pacman-like command, i.e. 
pacman -Syu
and then 
packer -S what-ever-I-call-the-package
No help today, but something to look forward to.
Storm already hs ratpoison accessibility stuff packaged, so you only need to add the accessibility variable 
export stuff 
and run a couple of commands to get things screenreader friendly, see his email in this thread regarding this.
Unless you are very memory tight Mate should be plently light, and it is enough more accessible compared with 
lxde to make 
it a much better choice if you can run it. 
XFCE is about as accessible as lxde, maybe a bit better actually, (not tried lxde recently to say for sure), 
and on most 
systems uses less memory than mate, but as far as cpu goes there's no big advantage either way.
At least one person, maybe a significant minority of users, report using less ram with mate than they do with 
XFCE. All I 
read however, and personal experience tell me that xfce's lighter on memory usage than Mate.
As they often say, "your mileage maly vary,"...
--
B.H.
  

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:28:35PM +0430, Hadi Rezaee wrote:

I wish there was a distro, (based on manjaro) that had a very lighweight
desktop manager. Extremeley lightweight with minimum packages, so i could
boot it from my USB flash and take it with me around.
Sonar apparently is working on a mate-based distro, But i know many lighter
desktops also exists.

On 8/16/2014 10:47 PM, B. Henry wrote:

Thanks for sharing the link.
More later, but quickly, although the menu's not accessible in fluxbox, there is no menu at all for 
rat-poison.
In either one though, as mentioned in my prev post in this thread, you can make a shortcut to open a 
filemanager in
/usr/share/applications/
and pressing enter on the .desktop files in there will launch the programs they refference in their exec 
lines. Usually
the program has same name as the .desktop file, but not always.
I have used this technique in flluxbox with the super, (windowskey to some), plus a as the shortcut.
The line in my ~/.fluxbox/keys file reading:
Mod4 a :Exec pcmanfm /usr/share/applications/
Note that Mod4 is what the windows or super key is called by many *nix configuration files, and Mod1 is 
alt.
Ratpoison has a keybinding to show you all the hotkeys that are configured, so in a sense this is a app 
menu substitute.

The big drawback to ratpoison for me is the two key combination keybindings.
As Storm says, it's like screen, or emacs if you wish, i.e. control-t plus something instead of having 
Control-m do
something.
I find it rather inconvenient and just plain rhythm destroying to have to press two key combinations to 
launch programs,
show the desktop or what ever instead of just typi9ing one combiinationm, e.g. alt super m to launch 
mangler, alt super w
to launch my default x-www-browser, etc.
For others this would not be a bother, or not much of one.
Both window managers are very fast, small, and thrifty with system resources in general.
Ratpoison's even smaller/lighter than fluxbox, but not noticeablly faster here. They both have atractive 
features and are
quite stable. I do find fluxbox more flexible, and generally more feature rich, but there's plenty good to 
say about
ratpoison.
Again, more later.
Oh, you can make a .sh file in /etc/profile.d/ and put the GTK_MODULES line in it, andf same with the QT 
setting, but in a
file called qt-accessibility.sh. Having those files should mean that any user will have the access stuff 
for these kits
working, and if you use a dm that doesn't use .xinitrc file in your home dir you
--
B.H.

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:55:16AM -0400, Storm Dragon wrote:

Hi,
this is still very much a work in progress. It's designed to replace the inaccessible bits of ratpoison, 
which is about as fast as you can get and still have access to X.
git clone https://github.com/stormdragon2976/strychnine.git
You'll have to point to the items in the git directiory in your .ratpoisonrc or add them to fluxbox. If 
you absolutely have to have a desktop, you can install caja and add caja -n to the .ratpoisonrc. 
Ratpoison works a lot like screen, I find it very easy to use. Fluxbox was pretty cool too, but the menu 
isn't accessible, which is a bit of a drawback. In ratpoison, if you need a tray for apps that only work 
if there's a panel or tray present, try trayer. I only have one app that requires it, and it's a QT app, 
so I'm not sure how accessible it is. It does say panel when focus lands on it though, so maybe...
If you're setting up mate, fluxbox, or ratpoison, here's a quick reference of things you will want to do 
to make the best accessible experience. Note these instructions work on Arch Linux. I'm not sure where 
.xinitrc is on other distros like Ubuntu or Vinux.
In ~/.xinitrc, make sure you have the line:
export GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge

In your ~/.bashrc:
export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1

In terminal type:
gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled true

And finally, if you chose Mate:
gsettings set org.mate.interface accessibility true

HTH
Storm
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:23:57AM -0500, Burt Henry wrote:

no panels, can't remember about desktop icons.
Mate is a lot heavier than lxde, but light compared with unity or kde, and much cpu less intensive than 
gnome3 and very
accessible with a few glitches.
XFCE may be a bit better than lxde, but very similar, and if you can do with out accessible panels and 
can do with out an
organized apps menu you can go super lightweight with fluxbox.
In fluxbox assign keuyboard shortcuts to the programs you use most, launch caja to get desktop icons, 
(use the -n option
when auto starting it in the fluxbox start-up file), and assign a key to open the applications dir in 
/usr/share to get a
way to launch any app you don't have a shortcut for and do not remember exact name for.
Also Stormdragon wrote a little  script to replace the run box app that's not accessible for fluxbox, 
ratpoison and
similar. I don't have his original, but do have my slightly hacked version of this I can send, or look 
in archives for the
url to get his version. Build from source if not able to get latest fluxbox on your debian based distro, 
it's in repos for
arch.
I can help more with the fluxbox configuration if you are interested, and maybe it'll get better out of 
the box with in a
reasonable time frame, some dev interest.
OAll of the above mentioned options require exporting gtk modules and setting qt accessiblity at least 
as well as a couple
things for gconf  for mate anyway, same gets stuff working for fluxbox.
I can send you some links and or notes later if you need.
--
B.H.

There are a couple more hacks for fluxbox.
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 08:06:43AM -0700, austinAustin quesada wrote:

Hi list. Was just wondering if the light-weight LXDE environment is
accessible using orca? I have some older machines laying around that
might benefit from a debian or arch install with LXDE. If it's not
particularly accessible, could anyone advise on another light-weight
desktop? Thanks for any feedback.
_______________________________________________
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https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


-- 
Powered by Arch Linux! I am registered Linux user number 508465: https://linuxcounter.net/user/508465.html
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constantly."
Van Canto - Quest for Roar




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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