Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org

[Kirk Reiser <kirk braille uwo ca>]

I believe you are absolutely right in your message below except for
one fact.  It is not that emacs or vi chose to be different than the
norm.  When they were written they were the norm.  This is a point
that so many newbies either forget or never learned.  The editors and
other applications such as emacs came long before Microsoft ever
dreamed of Windows or even DOS.  DOS was a cheap immitation of the
Unix type shell only poorer, a lesser cousin if you will.

They could not choose to be different because there was nobody to be
different from except other unknowns by todays standards such a teco
and redit etc.

  Kirk

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012, Thomas Ward wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> Well said. Although, I don't think learning Emacs is any more
> difficult than learning how to use Gnome, Unity, or KDE, etc its more
> a matter of what a person is use to. I'd say the majority of VI Linux
> users are coming to Linux from a Microsoft Windows environment, and
> they will come to Emacs expecting the same commands as they know when
> using Word, Notepad, Excel, etc. Most people aren't going to want to
> relearn everything they know from scratch simply because Emacs adopted
> a totally non-standard user interface.
>
> I'll use myself as an example here/. When I first began using Linux in
> the late 90's Orca didn't exist, and Speakup was in the very early
> stages of development.At the time the only reliable speech solution
> for Linux was Emacspeak with a hardware synth like a Dectalk Express.
> Which is what I learned to use.  Thing is I learned to use Emacs
> simply because I had to for my programming classes.
>
> However, were I coming to Linux for the first time today I doubt I
> would b learning Emacs or Emacspeak simply because Gnome and Orca
> provide a similar experience to Microsoft Windows applications. All
> the keyboard commands such as control+x for cut, control+c for copy,
> control+v for paste, etc work as expected. I don't need to look up the
> Emacs commands which are really non-standard compared to what I and
> other Windows users are use to. Its not a case of Emacs being anymore
> difficult than Gedit or Libre Office, but more the fact it is
> unconventional and a person has to basically relearn everything they
> know about using a computer to operate it.
>
> Since I know both its no big deal now, but if I were coming at Emacs
> with other options like Gedit and Libre Office available I'd take the
> path of least complication. I'd say this is true for most VI computer
> users. Give them something similar to what they already know and
> they'll use it. Give them something different and they'll avoid it.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> On 7/9/12, Alex Midence <alex midence gmail com> wrote:
> > Disagree all you like.  The facts speek for themselves.  Ask around and
> > find
> > out how many people use Emacs or Emacspeak.  It's depressingly few.
> > Compare
> > that to how many use Gedit and Libre Office.  A simple poll on any list you
> > like should suffice to give you an idea.  I'm an avid Emacsoid myself and I
> > wish it were otherwise.  I've even gone so far as to spend several hours of
> > my time writing an introductory guide to it for novice users of Linux in an
> > effort to increase the user base somewhat.  People just seem to find it
> > easier to master Libre Office and Gedit than they do Emacs.  Part of the
> > reason is that unconventional interface you mentioned.  It introduces
> > complexity and difficulty or the perception thereof.  The harder something
> > is to master, the fewer people will want to master it.  Their need for the
> > software has to be high enough to justify the extra time and effort.  If
> > they find out there's something out there that does the same thing but with
> > less effort on their part, they're gone.  The only thing that will
> > counteract this phenomenon is if they are required to use it by some
> > outside
> > entity like their job or something like  that.
> >
> > Alex M
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--
Kirk Reiser                             The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk braille uwo ca             University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061