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Re: [orca-list] First time trying linux

Ah, yes and thanks for the response.

I use Pidgin myself with IRC, Google Chat and Skype, and I don't have
the problems you mention. I wonder if it's specific to the MSN protocol.
I also find moving through the contact list to be pretty snappy.

Firefox is slow, but that's an Orca and Firefox issue and not specific
to Vinux.

You're right, the console is going to be snappier, but it has it's own
disadvantages. Being able to use both, as you point out, is the way to go!

My concern with your initial statement on the Orca list is that it
implied there was something wrong with Vinux. I don't think these issues
are unique to vinux, and I wouldn't characterize them as GUI instability
issues.

On 15/01/12 15:33, Justin Harford wrote:

Hi there

You are probably right. I was confusing the people who are using the
bleeding edge builds with those who are not. My mistake.

I guess whether vinux, the version with ubuntu 10.04, has problems with
the GUI is really based on the criteria of the user.

The only areas where I really have trouble arer in pidgin and in
firefox. In pidgin, I find that the program crashes when I try to carry
on chat conversations with my msn contacts. I used to have an msn, aim,
yahoo and skype account set up on it. Then I experienced more frequent
crashes, and thinking that it was because I had registered so many
protocals on it, I got rid of the other accounts, and just started using
msn. The crashes are less frequent, but it will crash after about 10 or
15 minutes in a single chat conversation.

I think my problems with firefox perhaps have to do with the time thaht
it takes to load a webpage, or more specifically, the itme it takes orca
to load the necessary buffers, so that it could interact with the page.
I would get confused, because it would say that it had finished loading.
I took that to mean thath it had finished the webpage and it was ready
for me to start browsing, but in reality it is only referring to one
component, and if I let it go longer, it will tell me about a number of
things thaht it finishes loading, twitter, facebook, google and news
services etc. So, I think that if I wait for all that to load before
trying to navigate, it should work okay. But, that would mean that I
would have to wait a pretty long time, probably about two to five
minutes for a single page. Call me picky, but that just seems too long.

So, I'll just say that I would like things to be more snappy than they
are, and I find such to be the case when I use the console. For example,
if I open pidgin and go up and down my list of contacts, there is a
delay of about a second from when I push the arrow key, and when it
reads the contact. If I do the same thing in finch with speakup, it is
much faster.

But, as I get more experience using my system, I am finding that it is
good to have access to both the console and the gdm, as they act as a
sort of check-and-balance system. When one crashes, the other is usually
working, so I'm never dead in the water. And that is good.

I hope I was able to clarify my views on this subject. Sorry if I misspoke.

Regards
Justin Harford

On 14/01/12 18:40, Christopher Chaltain wrote:

What do you find so surprising? I'm not the only one running Vinux
with basically no problems. In fact, I suspect your experience is more
the exception rather than the rule, at least for anyone running Vinux
3.0.1, the latest LTS release of Vinux, the most tested and supported
version. I also don't recall a lot of other people having GUI
stability issues with Vinux 3.0.1. People have had problems with
audio, especially on the developmental and experimental versions of
Vinux.

On 14/01/12 17:59, Justin Harford wrote:

That is certainly surprising. Of course I never head the impression
that it would be specific to vinux. I honestly did not make much of
it, since I had seen others describe a similar situation.

On 1/14/12, Christopher Chaltain<chaltain gmail com>  wrote:

I spend quite a bit of time on Vinux 3.1 and 3.2.1, and I haven't
experienced this GUI instability you're talking about, so it's not
intrinsic to Vinux. I hope you reported this to the vinux team to
see if
they could help figure out what's going on in your situation.

On 14/01/12 16:03, Justin Harford wrote:

This discussion reminds me of the first time I tried linux. Ubuntu was
around version 6… it was back around 2007. I downloaded it and
booted up
on a vmware machine. I had to follow the instructions to navigate
through
the first part without speech. I pressed alt f2… typed orca, and was
immediately presented with that command line that I had met in Mac
OS X,
and somewhat feared. The next several days I spent sorting through
online
documentation, trying to install speech dispatcher to make orca more
stable, and trying to get a bleeding edge version of firefox to
replace
the one that came with the distribution, so that I could access the
internet.

Yeah I have to admit having it come up speaking from the get go makes
things easier if you are a newby (though vinux did not do this for
me on
my acer), but I have to admit, this introduction through vinux
really has
left me wanting more. The almost absolute instability of the GUI,
which
constantly gets hung up, has sent me running for the console, and
looking
up command line tools to replace the Gnome Panel.

It's a good motivator… not necessarily a matter of sink or swim
anymore,
but a matter of either swim, or accept a low functioning system.

Regards
Justin Harford
On 14-01-2012, at 1:08, kendell clark wrote:


you should write a review of vinux. That was the best review of vinux
i've ever seen, lol. I second that recommendation re vinux. I
didn't know
about the qt at-spi stuff but i got equally frustrated with orca in
unity. Weird issues that are hard to reproduce unless you count
lots of
unity segfaults, rhythmbox completely crashes and burns, and  some
weird
bugs in unity itself. Vinux 3.2.1 is the way to go, unless you
want the
last lts, then it's 3.0.1 currently, but there's a 3.0.2 which is
supposed to provide newer orca, kernel and newer packages.  It's
still in
beta afaik.
thanks
Kendell clark
On 01/13/2012 09:49 PM, Alex Midence wrote:

I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu 11.10 to someone who hasn't used
Linux with
Orca before.  There are way way way too many accessibility holes in
Unity right now.  Vinux 3.2 is based on Ubuntu 11.04 and it works
just
fine.  You still get relatively recent packages and you have all
your
accessibility stuff pre-configured for you.  Best of all:  it's
not on
Unity.  This means that the community of users who could help him
out
with any problems he may run into is larger since it's using
gnome 2.32
which we all know well.  He didn't ask for a distro that was on the
bleeding edge.  He said he's new to Linux and wants one he can go
with
to try it out for the first time.  Oneiric is too full of a11y
holes and
has a totally new approach, Debian requires too much knowledge
and would
only frustrate him with its advanced requirements and possible
hardware
hurdles, Fedora is a pain to install, Arch is absolutely too
advanced,
don't know anything about Suse so, I won't comment on them but,

honestly, I can't think of a better distro for someone to try Linux
out with
all the accessibility bells and whistles than Vinux.  All the work
is done
for you and the user community actually prides itself on its
friendliness
towards rank newbies.  I speak from experience.  I started using
Vinux in
August of 2010 and kept it as my primary distro until about a month
and a
half ago when I more or less switched over to Debian because I'm
doing more
server-type stuff now and all the technical publications I'm going
through
use it to teach their concepts. Anyway, you couldn't ask for a more
helpful,
patient and friendly bunch of folks than that group and installing
Vinux
without sighted assistance is seriously easy as it trying out a live
CD.
There's even a pre-built virtual machine he could try out so he can
stay in
windows while trying Linux to see if he likes it and wants to pursue
it.
Oh, and say what you Will about Vinux not keeping up with bleeding edge
mainstream software
  like Gnome3 or stuff like that but, work is currently underway to get
Debian packages created for qt-at-spi's recent full release, the latest
ports of at-spi2 and the latest builds of Orca.  People won't have to
install them from source if they want them and they will have the most
recent versions. I don't know another distro that can boast that,
certainly
not Ubuntu propper. They're waitinf for their April long term
release for
all that stuff.  Ther's also talk about a multidesktop testers
version of
Vinux with pre-installed Unity, Gnome3, KDE, and XFCE so people can
try them
out now that lots of a11y support is coming along.  By the way, if
anyone
wants to help out with that effort with testing and, especially with
development of that edition, you'll find an appreciative reception.


Regards,
Alex M

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Thomas Ward wrote:


Hi Andy,

Well, it is true that Vinux is running behind the other
distributions
when it comes to the latest and greatest versions of packages,
but I
also know its both stable and new users probably aren't
concerned with
bleeding edge yet. I feel getting a stable and very accessible
version
of Linux on a new users system takes presidents over weather
they have
the latest version of LibreOffice, Firefox, etc.

For example, just over the last week or so I've seen several
messages
on how to switch Ubuntu 11.10 over to the 2d version of Unity so
they
can get maximum accessibility out of the Unity desktop.  That
might be
fine for someone like myself who has used Ubuntu Linux since
version 6
or so, but I don't think a new user should have to learn to setup
Orca, reconfigure the desktop environment, and learn both Orca and
Linux all at once. Vinux is a nice compromise where the
accessibility
is already setup and someone can learn Orca and Linux without being
forced to know from day one how to get everything up and running
with
accessibility before they learn the OS and screen reader.

To me its a choice of starting someone out at the shallow end of
the
pool, teach them to swim, and work there way to the deep end, or
just
throw them head long into the deep end of the pool and tell them to
sink or swim. I can say that no one really likes being tossed
into the
deep end of the pool and being forced to sink or swim from day one.

HTH


On 1/13/12, Andy B<sonfire11 gmail com>  wrote:

Vinux is so far behind though... And I'm sure many new users have
found help
getting orca started in Ubuntu 11.10.


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain gmail com
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp





_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain gmail com
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