Re: [orca-list] Structural HTML navigation by lists

[Marcus Habermehl <bmh1980de yahoo de>]

Am 21.01.2011 18:34, schrieb Al Sten-Clanton:
> I'm inclined to agree with much of what Steve says.  I may value the
> distinction between visited and unvisited links more than he does,
> though, as it can sometimes help you skip a bunch of links on a page
> with a lot of them.  (Of course,the find command can do that, but only
> if you remember exactly what the link's label is--or enough of it to
> make it unique.

Yes I was probably a bit quick with my opinion about the
visited/unvisited links. After I had sent the message, and some thought
I came to a different conclusion.

> On 1/21/2011 11:10 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > We've had the comparison issues between screen readers in the past.  I
> > don't want to see Orca implement something just because Jaws has it,
> > nor do I want something to be implemented like jaws just just because
> > some
> > people in windows use jaws.  I for one, don't do jaws and have no
> > intentions of doing so.  If it just so happens that a feature is well
> > implemented in jaws, then do it; otherwise, if there is a better way,
> > I would rather see that instead.  In the case of all these lists for
> > different HTML widgets, I think the treeview approach wouldn't be so
> > bad but at the very least, I like the idea of a two letter command to
> > pop them up.  this way, you don't lose so many hot keys right off the
> > bat for a single feature. The first letter of the two-letter command
> > could open the single dialog for HTML widgets which could actually be
> > a treeview.  Then the second letter would corespond to the types of
> > elements we now have for structural navigation but also take you to
> > the matching node in this tree.  This way, if one didn't know all the
> > possible element types, you could brows this treeview and subsequently
> > learn the shortcuts to get to these nodes directly in the future.
> >
> > So this way, you have the treeview approach but commands to take you
> > to separate lists.
> >
> > Oh, I also see little value in differentiating between visited and
> > unvisited links I would just soon find the next link regardless of
> > visited or not.  Actually, with my suggested deal above, it wouldn't
> > matter if you included these separate lists.  After all, it might as
> > well be consistent with the available structural navigation commands
> > we now have.
> >
> > Hope this all makes sense.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 02:33:51PM +0100, Marcus Habermehl wrote:
> > > Am 20.01.2011 14:15, schrieb Geoff Shang:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm very new to Orca, so will keep my comments to a minimum.  But you
> > > > may want to look at what's been done in NVDA.  You only have one dialog
> > > > box there and select the type of element to look at.  You can also
> > > > enter
> > > > in a search string to narrow down the list.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't take the way of NVDA as a good example. NVDA lists only three
> > > types of objects, one of which was always empty in my tests.
> > >
> > > We should prefer commercial screen readers such as Jaws or Hal/Dolphin
> > > as an example. I think they are the best known on Windows.
> > >
> > > Firstly, the developers will have something in mind for their solution
> > > and on the other a similar behavior makes it easier to change between
> > > Windows and GNOME.
> > >
> > > Both have separate lists. Hal/Dolphin represents those lists in one
> > > window but distributed to different tabs in a notebook. JAWS on the
> > > other hand, uses different windows.
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > > Marcus