Re: [orca-list] Structural HTML navigation by lists

[Steve Holmes <steve holmes88 gmail com>]

I think I've seen in treeviews where merely pressing the left arrow
will take you back to the top of the given node and then another press
of the left arrow key will collapse the node.  Not sure about the
incremental search though.  Frankly, if one is searching like that, I
think you would be better off inside the whole document and just using
the find feature of Firefox.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:11:07AM +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> I very much agree with Steve. We certainly should not use many key
> presses up for a feature which may or may not be used by some people
> (I can say for myself I don't make use of such a feature, even when
> its available to me when using Mac and voiceover, I generally prefer
> jump to next element of given type or do a search).
>
> Now how might it be done, the treeview is one option, another being
> the submenu idea. Now how might these compare for usage? Thinking
> about it, the menu/submenu idea is nice as one could press the key
> to bring up the menu listing the various types of element (including
> "All elements") and then the user could easily jump to the
> appropriate one using the shortcut letter. Its the next bit which
> may not work so well if using submenus, I don't think GTK menus
> allow one to type so much of the menu item they want to go to (like
> you can on the Mac), so meaning the user would have to scroll
> through the menu to find what they want in the submenu.
>
> Now to the tree view idea, I think this does allow filtering by
> typing, but I am not sure if there is a nice key stroke in gnome/GTK
> to go back to parent node of the tree (say I had gone into links and
> was quite a way down the links, I don't think there is a key stroke
> I could use to go back to the links node which is expanded, may be
> because I realised I found it wasn't a link I need but a button).
>
> If I am wrong about the jumping back to parent nodes in a tree view
> then I think the tree view may be better, otherwise I get the
> feeling the menu idea is better (IE. if I know the text of what I am
> looking for then I could do a standard search for it).
>
> Michael Whapples
> On -10/01/37 20:59, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > We've had the comparison issues between screen readers in the past.  I
> > don't want to see Orca implement something just because Jaws has it,
> > nor do I want something to be implemented like jaws just just because some
> > people in windows use jaws.  I for one, don't do jaws and have no
> > intentions of doing so.  If it just so happens that a feature is well
> > implemented in jaws, then do it; otherwise, if there is a better way,
> > I would rather see that instead.  In the case of all these lists for
> > different HTML widgets, I think the treeview approach wouldn't be so
> > bad but at the very least, I like the idea of a two letter command to
> > pop them up.  this way, you don't lose so many hot keys right off the
> > bat for a single feature. The first letter of the two-letter command
> > could open the single dialog for HTML widgets which could actually be
> > a treeview.  Then the second letter would corespond to the types of
> > elements we now have for structural navigation but also take you to
> > the matching node in this tree.  This way, if one didn't know all the
> > possible element types, you could brows this treeview and subsequently
> > learn the shortcuts to get to these nodes directly in the future.
> >
> > So this way, you have the treeview approach but commands to take you
> > to separate lists.
> >
> > Oh, I also see little value in differentiating between visited and
> > unvisited links I would just soon find the next link regardless of
> > visited or not.  Actually, with my suggested deal above, it wouldn't
> > matter if you included these separate lists.  After all, it might as
> > well be consistent with the available structural navigation commands
> > we now have.
> >
> > Hope this all makes sense.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 02:33:51PM +0100, Marcus Habermehl wrote:
> > > Am 20.01.2011 14:15, schrieb Geoff Shang:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm very new to Orca, so will keep my comments to a minimum.  But you
> > > > may want to look at what's been done in NVDA.  You only have one dialog
> > > > box there and select the type of element to look at.  You can also enter
> > > > in a search string to narrow down the list.
> > > I wouldn't take the way of NVDA as a good example. NVDA lists only three
> > > types of objects, one of which was always empty in my tests.
> > >
> > > We should prefer commercial screen readers such as Jaws or Hal/Dolphin
> > > as an example. I think they are the best known on Windows.
> > >
> > > Firstly, the developers will have something in mind for their solution
> > > and on the other a similar behavior makes it easier to change between
> > > Windows and GNOME.
> > >
> > > Both have separate lists. Hal/Dolphin represents those lists in one
> > > window but distributed to different tabs in a notebook. JAWS on the
> > > other hand, uses different windows.
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > > Marcus
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