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Re: [orca-list] scope of this list

I agree with Al, although I may be more willing to join multiple lists
and put up with the additional traffic. I agree we should find a gentle
way to keep people on topic. By "liberal" I didn't mean anything goes, I
just meant that we need to have a broad concept of what it means to be
Orca related. Orca is just such an intrinsic part of the system for a
blind person, it may not be clear to the user if they're seeing
something related to Orca or something else in the system or
application. I'm just afraid that if we try to adhere to closely to one
persons concept of what is and is not on topic for Orca that we could
create more traffic--in arguing about what is and is not on topic--than
we would eliminate. I guess I'm saying that we should err on the side of
a question being on topic if it's close, and put our emphasis in
redirecting posts that are clearly off topic.

Unfortunately, any moderation is going to frustrate some users. I know
on the JAWS list there are people who are adamant that they can ask any
question they want about their PC, Windows or any application, because
after all, they use JAWS to use their PC!

On 15/08/11 18:08, Albert Sten-Clanton wrote:

Greetings!

If John's messages here prompt a revival of the Blinux list, I'm sure that
will be a good thing.  I sometimes have questions that would be better for
that presumably generic list on Linux and the blind than for this or any
other more specialized list.  When I last looked at the list, though, it was
unused, and you can't seek wisdom at a place where there are no wiseguys to
offer it.  

I don't think I've been far off the topic in my questions on this list.
There have been times, though, where I wasn't sure where my question
belonged.  If I used only Vinux or Debian or Arch, I'd add that list to my
small repertoir, and would have one more place to go with questions.  I
think I'd have to delete well over a hundred messages if I were on all or
even most of the lists people have mentioned in this thread, though, so the
inconvenience is much less when dealing with both on-topic and off-topic
Orca list messages that I don't need to look at.

In short, on topic is of course desirable.  Accurate subject lines are
especially desirable.  Still, I won't cry a river if (though maybe an
occasional stream) if I have to delete messages that probably should be
somewhere else.  Of course, I also won't cry if the moderators find a gentle
way to reduce the number of such messages.

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Jon
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 6:17 PM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] scope of this list

Thanks for your replies,

@ThomasWard, yes you are saying that you want a single point of contact, and
what some people feel is that maybe the blinux list should be used for this
purpose, and if more specialist advise is required then one should ask the
question/report the problem on the specific list.
The point is not to deny helping each other, but to have this help targeted,
as well as having space for feature discussions and improvement suggestions.
Most of us are subscribed to these various mailing lists, but when I go to
the blinux list I am happy and have the time to help, and when i read the
orca list i want to see if someone has reported a problem that i've come
across, or if i wish to discuss a particular feature.
I know for certain that I am not the only person that do this. It is just a
little bit of a colture difference for people that come from windows, and
its another small thing that we all had to learn at some point. The idea is
not to be negative or unhelpful, but to be constructive and guide people to
the right channels.


@CraigBlake, I can't remember if the various email lists are linked to from
the orca wiki, I will look and update if they are not there already.
Yes, discussion of features/improvements are very much ontopic for this
list. If your idea is very clear and you don't wish to discuss it with other
users first, then you can open a bugzilla ticket with your feature
request/improvement with a detailed description. Sometimes we reach a
consensis then a ticket is opened.
If the suggestions are unrelated, then one email per suggestion with a good
subject please :)

@Nolan, it would be a shame if all of us old orca list members unsubscribed,
it is better if we try to work together to remind each other when we go off
topic, otherwise you would not be the only one to unsubscribe, and our orca
would be the worse off.

@ChristopherChaltain, liberal is good, but having to delete over 100
messages for the last few weeks unrelated to orca or orca specific features
is not ideal. If you want a comparison just look at the archive of the last
two months, and the same two months from two years ago, and look at the
ratio between related/unrelated messages.
Your point of having good clear subject lines is very valuable, most these
things are mensioned in the orca list guidelines linked to at the bottom of
each orca list email: 
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
It is excellent that we are getting more users and every single one is
welcome.

@mattias, the blinux list would be more active if more people asked
questions there.

Thanks.

On Mon 15/08/11,14:56, Nolan Darilek wrote:

On 08/15/2011 02:49 PM, Jon wrote:

Do people feel the same/any other views?




Absolutely. I've brought this up many times previously, and generally 
people agree, but nothing gets done. I was thinking that I might just 
leave the list this time.

I get that it seems nice to help people, and to answer off-topic 
questions. However, think of what would happen if *everyone* on *every 
list* did that. If my Scala list is spammed with Ruby questions, my 
ATX Hackerspace group gets postings on San Francisco events, and my 
Android list gets overwhelmed by questions from iPhone users, then 
what's the point of mailing lists? For every one person who says "I 
can't get my wireless to work. I use Orca. I'll send that to the Orca 
list!" hundreds of us spend time deleting. And just where do we draw 
the line in that case? At the moment I'm learning about internet 
marketing. I use Orca. Should I start posting questions about 
advertising and affiliate marketing here because I happen to use Orca 
while doing these things?
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at 
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelin
es Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to
help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain gmail com
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