Re: [orca-list] Orca and underline in openoffice

I think I would be tempted to agree with what you say about when navigating a line. Its for the user to know how the application works (in this case openoffice), orca is there to say what is shown.

I will see what some other screen readers say in things like word (I seem to remember that window-eyes reports the state of the character moved to rather than what you will insert). If all others are reporting the other way are we just being confusing at the moment (Paul it seemed to catch you out).

Is there a general view on this?

Michael Whapples
On 05/28/2010 05:47 PM, Paul Hunt wrote:

Okay, yes, I see the problem.

If you control + right arrow to a word that begins some underlining, then type some characters, the chars you type will not be underlined.

Also, if you control + right arrow to a word after some underlining and then type, what you type will be underlined.

I think this is nuts personally but it's an OO thing, not an Orca thing.

And it does raise the question, as you say;

Should Orca tell you the state of the word you just landed on? Or the state of what anything you type willl be?

I think the former, personally.


On 28/05/10 17:21, Michael Whapples wrote:
I can confirm what you say about navigate by word although I think you may be observing something else.

Let me try and explain. When you land on the first word which is underlined, the cursor is at the point just in front of the first letter (will insert characters in front of the word). If you enter text at this point will it be underlined. If no, then openoffice's underline is off, but not for the character the cursor is next to. When you get to the end, I assume the same theory applies, text you insert will be underlined but the character the cursor point refers to is not underlined. I think what you hear is the underline toggle button in the toolbar. Why I think this is that the positioning of where orca says underline on and underline off do not change in the reverse direction.

In a certain way what you hear is not wrong, orca is telling you what the underline state is for if you were to enter text, which is exactly what you need when writing.

this raises the question whether my original expectation was correct or not. I still feel Braille should note text has attributes. Now what about speech? Is the behavior of reading underline status be for what will be inserted or for the state of the character you are on? Should there be multiple messages, "Start underline" and "End underline" when referring to existing text and "underline on" and "underline off" when referring to underline status for input. I would say in the case of cursoring down onto a line speech should tell me where underlined text begins and ends, the problem really comes when navigating the line (reading the whole line is certainly review, navigating the line may be either detailed review or editing).

I think that's as much as I can say at the moment, discuss.

Michael Whapples
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Paul Hunt wrote:

I just had a quick play with this.

Confirmed that Orca isn't announcing underlined text when you navigate by character or line.

And that it is not being indicated in braille.

However if you navigate via word (control + left and right) Orca is telling you about the underlined text.

I have a problem with this however. The message about the underlining being on or off is kicking in at the wrong time.

If navigating to the right, the message about underlining being on is being spoken after the second word which is underlined.

And if you continue past the underlined text, Orca doesn't say "underlined off" until after the second word which is not underlined.

So, if I have the sentance

this is a sentance to test if orca is announcing changes properly

and I underline the words "test if orca is"

I hear the following when control + right arrowing across it;

if, underline on
changes, underline off

Which makes it sound like the words "if orca is announcing" are the underlined words.

Do you see this behaviour?


On 28/05/10 14:30, Michael Whapples wrote:
I am trying to get orca to inform me about underline text in openoffice writer, but I am not having great success in what I want to achieve.

I went to orca preferences and went to text attributes. I check the boxes in the table for speech and braille for underline and go to OK. Now when I open a document with underlined text I find that orca doesn't announce the underline when reading the line (and the braille indication isn't there although I set that to dot-8). Now if I cursor to the character which should be underlined and press orca+f I do hear that it is underlined.

My problem with the above behavior is that I must be aware that underline might be used, hence why I want orca to announce it while reading. I am slightly confused why Braille isn't showing this, if I mispell a word in this email I get dot8 under each character of the word.

Any help would be useful.

Michael Whapples
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