Re: [orca-list] Orca & GSettings

[Joanmarie Diggs <joanmarie diggs gmail com>]

Hi Trev, all.

In a separate response in this thread, Alejandro said the following:

AL> The solution we're designing is based in a faÃade+adapter that it'll
AL> make things easier for integration in any desktop around. As I said
AL> previously this work is beneficial for any desktop around.

And in yet another response, Alejandro stated:

AL> That's exactly our idea, implement a abstract system in python that
AL> uses differents backends (GSettings, Gconf, text files,
AL> whatever...).
AL> In this way we'll bring a flexible system to Orca and easily 
AL> extensible to any other desktop.

So it certainly sounds to me like we're getting the best of both worlds:

1. Bringing Orca into full compliance with the GNOME community
2. Making Orca *more* compatible with other desktop environments

Like it or not, Orca is a GNOME module and GNOME modules are expected to
adhere to certain community standards and conventions. Rolling your own
funky, kludgy -- not to mention broken -- settings and storing them
wherever the spirit moves you to store them does not, I'm afraid, fit
well with the standards and conventions we're expected to adhere to.

At this point, I can hear you say, "So what? Let's leave GNOME!"

Well... Contrary to what you suggest here:

>  Even if they did decide to do something what can they do?  take
> resources on gnome.org I believe that's about it other than remove us
> from the list of packages in gnome.  If this were to be a problem I
> for one would happily put forward the time and money to setup orca on
> a vps of our own.

We actually get more benefit from being a GNOME module than that,
including, but not limited to:

1. GNOME translators. Orca is translated into, I believe, 60 languages
now. If we leave the GNOME community, we lose that. Would you also
happily put forward the time and money to ensure that Orca continues to
be available to all users regardless of language?

2. Funding. It's not much, but every little bit helps. In particular we
have received -- and hopefully will in the future receive -- funding to:

A. Pay developers to fix bugs and implement new features that Orca users
want and need.

B. Attend conferences and hackfests and summits so that Orca developers
can get in the same room with one another, and with developers from
other modules, to solve problems facing Orca users.

So when we split off from GNOME, I assume you'll foot the bill for this
as well?

3. Being the ad hoc measure by which other GNOME modules are judged for
accessibility. In other words, "works with Orca" is something the GNOME
developer community, and the GNOME release team, see as a requirement.
Granted, there have been times where this hasn't been enforced quite to
the degree that I would have liked, but we're starting to see
improvements in that area.  And with everything coming down the pike for
GNOME 3.0 (including gnome-shell and bonobo deprecation), the "works
with Orca" requirement is a very, very nice thing to have. If we split
off from GNOME and become Trev's Screen Reader, will the GNOME developer
community and the GNOME release team see "works with TRS" as a
requirement? Hard to say for sure, but I'd bet no.

I don't think leaving GNOME is a smart idea. Instead, I think we should
stay, figure out how we can fit in nicely with the expectations of the
GNOME community, **while at the same time achieving the ability to work
well in other environments such as KDE.** The solution being developed
by Emergya strikes me as the way to accomplish these things, and I am
grateful that they are doing this work.

As for your other points:

> agreed, lets fix actual bugs not do things that might improve a UI some.

If you don't mind my asking, who is the us implied by your "lets"? I've
been working as a volunteer literally full-time hours each and every
week (and have more or less for the past four years) on Orca. I spend
the bulk of that time working to fix actual bugs. This GSettings change
has not changed that. In fact, it is *because* Emergya is doing this
work that I am able to continue to work full-time on fixing actual bugs.
To be honest, these days the only time I'm not working on fixing bugs is
when I have to respond to emails like this one. <smile>

> Hope I haven't been to personal :-)

Well, actually....

To recap some recent history: Oracle essentially pulled the rug out from
under us, and yet (if I do say so myself) Orca is doing ok. In fact, bug
fixing has increased; not decreased. And, while GNOME 3.0 might be a tad
rough around the edges on day 1, I think Orca + GNOME 3.0 is going to
come out alright. How are we accomplishing this, given Oracle's actions?

1. I'm putting in even more time (reminder, I'm a 100% volunteer)

2. Some community members have stepped up to the plate (thanks guys)

3. The Consorcio Fernando de los RÃos/Junta de AndalucÃa have very
generously provided us with the engineers from Emergya who, in addition
to doing the settings work, will be fixing bugs and writing additional
documentation.

4. The GNOME developer community is supporting us by providing
direction, by enforcing the requirement of accessibility, and through
the aforementioned funding.

Your response, in contrast, has not been to dive in and help us fix all
those Orca bugs you say "we" should fix. Instead, your response has been
to shoot down the work of those of us who are actually fixing bugs and
to suggest we pull out of the very community whose support we need.

Orca will remain a GNOME module in good standing. Orca will move to
GSettings. As part of the move to GSettings, the engineers from Emergya
will give Orca a means by which to exist in other desktop environments.
And I will go back to fixing bugs now. <smile>

--joanie