Re: [orca-list] Want your opinion on the removal of "Close"buttonson some dialog windows

["David E. Price" <deprice cs utah edu>]

Hi,

While removing the "Close" button would be no problem for more savvy users, 
I think that it should be kept for beginners. My experience with beginning 
computer users is that they want something that spells out very clearly the 
action to be taken. For sighted users, the close icon on the title bar may 
be just fine, although I have found that beginners are reluctant to use 
objects in the title bar because they are not sure if the action taken there 
is related to the information in the window/dialog because it is not part of 
that interaction. Even if the icon in the title bar works well for the 
sighted beginner, it is not in the tab order and so won't be available to 
the vision impaired. Thus, I believe that the Close button should stay in 
the dialog.

dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc MIT EDU>
To: <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Want your opinion on the removal of 
"Close"buttonson some dialog windows


> I think removing clutter (and that also means clutter in the tab order) is 
> a
> good thing. The close button doesn't need to be in the tab order as long 
> as
> there is a well-known shortcut (alt+f4).
>
> I am confused about the alt+f4 or close button's semantics, however. Does 
> it
> close without save (akin to cancel or escape)?  I like the windows
> convention of having OK and cancel buttons (enter and escape keys) in all
> dialogs for accept changes and cancel changes, respectively.
> I think alt+f4 should never save changes! It should be synonomous with
> cancel.
> -- Rich
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jon" <j orcauser googlemail com>
> To: <orca-list gnome org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] Want your opinion on the removal of "Close"
> buttonson some dialog windows
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I dont mind either way, i am totally blind and dont tend to tab around
> to find the close button, unless i wanted to make sure that the settings
> weren't saved. alt+f4 is well known so I dont think there will be a
> problem there.
>
> The question becomes, do we have save button for when we wish to confirm
> our preferences? and in that case wouldn't it look odd graphically to
> have a save but not a close button? I guess if the close button is in
> the top right then it is obvious.
>
> Gnome-volume-control doesn't have a save or close button, yet when
> alt+f4 is pressed the values of volume bars are saved.
>
> I guess for people using magnifiers it is advantagious to minimize
> clutter on the screen, and once they know that top right will close,
> then that is straight forward. (my sight use to be better)
>
> regarding the comment made about alerts, i still don't see why alt+f4
> cant be used.
>
> In what instance would alt+f4 be confusing? I have always considered it
> to be synonymous with close-without-save
>
> Intresting to hear other peoples views about this.
>
> -Jon
>
> On Tue 06/11/2007 at 11:19:25, Willie Walker wrote:
> > Hi All:
> >
> > Members of the GNOME team are considering removing the "Close" buttons
> > on many dialogs in GNOME.  For example, almost all of the GNOME
> > Preferences windows -- Appearance Preferences, Keyboard Preferences, AT
> > Preferences, etc. -- have this "Close" button.
> >
> > The discussion on this subject is here:
> >
> > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-themes-list/2007-November/msg00000.html
> >
> > "I wanted to investigate if we could get rid of all our Close-buttons in
> > some windows, since every window have a big close button in the top
> > right corner anyway. (therefore less clutter) A big stopper for this was
> > apparently the highcontrast themes, where the close button in the corner
> > hit target is pretty small apparently."
> >
> > If the "Close" button were removed, you'd have to remember to press
> > Alt+F4 (or Alt+Space and then navigate to the menu item) to close a
> > window.  Escape may also work.  I personally think this might be too
> > much to remember (I like "Close" buttons), and can also leave you
> > wondering if any changes you made in the window were saved or lost as a
> > result of pressing Alt+F4.
> >
> > Anyhow, your thoughts on this would be appreciated.  If you're strongly
> > for or against the idea, please provide a constructive comment for why.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Will
> > _______________________________________________
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