Re: System settings layouts (Universal Access proposal)

Hi Bastien, 
>         > ...and added it to the dedicated page in the
>         > wiki:
>         If you have particular concerns about the layout, feel free to
>         voice
>         them, rather than dismissing all the work that's occurred
>         before.
> I am voicing them

This was the part that was missing from the original mail actually.

In the wiki I simply said "change of layout to create a clearer connection between the switches and the section header", next time I will expand from email 1 ;) 

>       * Horizontal alignment of the switches with the feature header:
>         while the offset is there for hierarchical reasons, with the
>         switch widget (with such straight lines) looks almost as a
>         bug.

OK. That's unfortunate but the grouping is "header + switch" with the
description (when there is one) being tacked on, rather than the main
focus. Glancing at the screen, the feature names should jump at you, and
the switch is right there. That's what the space is for.

I agree that the header should jump at you, but this doesn't mean that the switch should jump at you too. Actually it is better if you can scan the headers without the interference of the switchers.

>       * The description of the feature is too far from the header:
>         ideally should almost be between the header and the switch. As
>         it is now looks like an introduction to the related options.

That's because the description is a rewording of the feature name.
People who need accessibility features and already have experience of
those will know the terms "bounce keys" or "visual alerts".

While I understand it, I think we should find a pattern which can fit also other panels.
>       * Is not clear where "Turn on accessibility features from the
>         keyboard" belongs

Agreed. Ideas welcome here.


>       * On Screen Keyboard is a clearer header than Typing Assistant
>         (which is too generic)

That's because the typing assistant here could also have been Dasher in
the past. The a11y team wants us to reintegrate Dasher, so there's room
for this to be changed.

In this case would you have 2 switches under the same header? Wouldn't it be better with a switch per header? 

>       * The sliders are too wide: ergonomically speaking, they require
>         too much pointer movement and that level of precision is not
>         required (I didn't fix this in the quick mock up I did)

The sliders certainly aren't too wide for a universal access panel. And
they're about 300 pixels wide, that's hardly wide.

Because this is the universal access panel, ergononics should be aligned. Sorry, invalid issue! ;) 

> I understand that in your opinion this panel is done and finished, but
> I can't help to keep looking for ways how to improve things.

Sure. But I want to see incremental improvements. Completely redesigning
one of the screens without mentioning the problems encountered is not
really helpful. It tramples on all the work that's gone on before.

I don't think that my quick design was very disruptive, I was definitely interested on discussing the layout pattern, especially because the eventual impact on other panels. 

For some of the smaller items above (labels, single misplaced checkbox),
feel free to create bugs and provide possible solutions to those
particular problems.

Unfortunately I think the problem is at a higher level (like the indentation). Not sure it should be fixed case by case, but I will have a better look to extrapolate the various patterns to cover. 

Even better than mockups would be modifying the GtkBuilder ui file and
sending patches. This way we can compare before and after.

Is there a wiki page with some instructions? :) You are lucky I can actually develop, at quite hight level though (no idea about packaging etc...). 

It would also be best if you made the mockups and changes using the
upstream themes, but I don't have much hope in that happening ;)

I can quite easily change colours, I am quite keen on making it a neutral grey on white though! ;)
Hop on #gnome-design on GIMPNet. This mailing-list is mostly technical,
I don't expect very many designers to hang out here (or they agree with

This will make me very unpopular but I quite like asynchronous interactions ;)
Will jump in anyway!

Thanks for the feedback, chr

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