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Re: [gnome-flashback] ANNOUNCE: gnome-panel and gnome-flashback-session 3.8.1 release

Hi Alberts, Philipp, and all;

On 08/25/2014 03:31 PM, Alberts Muktupāvels wrote:
Hi Philipp,

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Philipp Kaluza <floss ghostroute eu> wrote:
Hi Alberts,

Am 23.08.2014 um 14:04 schrieb Alberts Muktupāvels:
> Hi,
>
>       Flashback Session
>
>             * Add session description for using Flashback mode with Compiz
>               This is _not_ a supported mode for Gnome Flashback, but only
>               included for Ubuntu's convenience.
>               (Dmitry Shachnev, Philipp Kaluza)
>
>
> How Compiz session will work with DMs that does not support parameter
> passing in session file? Or suddenly it does not matter?

It does not matter for us, as we don't support this use case. (This is
not Gnome Flashback, and I'm serious about not diluting that mark.) That
this is even in git is only a convenience to make Dmitry's work
(collecting translations) easier.
Either he can decide to ship a second script, or only support a subset
of DMs, or whatever. Problem delegated.

> So that means that you don't plan make new release at least for next 4
> months?
No it does not. It does mean that we will _not_ do an ABI and API break
without proper announcement - as I had told you repeatedly.

The rdepends for libpanel-applet are at least:
  workrave

1. Should stop using panel_applet_get_size.
2. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.

  uim-applet-gnome

1. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.

  sensors-applet

1. Should port to gsettings or stop using panel_applet_gconf_* and panel_applet_get_preferences_key functions.
2. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.
 
  link-monitor-applet

Depends on libpanel-applet2-dev. I doubt it is working with 3.8.x.
 
  gnubiff

1. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.
2. There is gconf schema file, but if it is using gconf directly then it is not problem.
 
  gnome-applets

There is branch that is updated for new libpanel-applet version. So this is already fixed.
 
  workrave
  uim-applet-gnome

You already listed these. See above.
 
  tracker-gui

Removed in debian unstable. Last available in ubuntu 12.04.
 
  sensors-applet

You already listed this applet.
 
  netspeed

1. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.
2. Should port to gsettings or stop using panel_applet_gconf_* and panel_applet_get_preferences_key functions.
3. Should stop using panel_applet_get_size.
 
  link-monitor-applet

You already listed this applet.
 
  indicator-applet-session
  indicator-applet-complete
  indicator-applet-appmenu
  indicator-applet

Already fixed and ready for merging.
 
  gnubiff

You already listed this applet.

  gnote

Applet is removed in newer version. At least in utopic this does not depend on libpanel-applet-4-dev. Upstream droped support for applet in 2012-06-23.
 
  byzanz

1. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.

  apt-watch-gnome
 
1. Update to GSimpleAction GSimpleActionGroup.
2. Should port to gsettings or stop using panel_applet_gconf_* and panel_applet_get_preferences_key functions.
 
, possibly more in unstable / experimental / fedora. You want to do
something useful ? Help contact each and every one of them.

Yes there is more - at least window-picker-applet. I have patch for this too.

Contact each of them? If they will need then they will contact us. We don't need to contact anyone!

> I guess it was way to hard to fix broken EDS. I wrote why it does not
> work. I sent two patches for another bug.
Which bug number ? What message IDs did the patches have ?
Track your work correctly.


But yeah at least you have reason to tell why you have not done anything.

> I will ask again. Please transfer maintainership to me.
Well I have one thing to contribute, and that is proper release
engineering - something you have demonstrated neither willingness nor
understanding of.

Find other project on which to show how best you are in knowing proper git usage. It is not enough to make you better maintainer. You have failed in at least few ways:
1. You are not spending enough time on this project. You are inactive maintainer and it is not better then if we would not have maintainer at all.
2. You have proved that your review can be just stupid. GtkTable replacement is GtkGrid. My work was to port deprecated GtkTable to GtkGrid. You asked to make different name for variable. You asked to redo it with GtkBox which requires more work then simple replacement with grid. There was no real reason to reject that patch.
3. You maintain only gnome-panel, but it is not enough for full Flashback session.
 
You want to modernize Gnome Panel, have fun hacking at obscure bugs, but
leave everybody else's needs behind. Your patches to get rid of stock
items ? Nice in theory, a few less warnings while building - but they
leave the overall translation status for gnome panel & friends (projects
that are no longer translated actively in a number of languages) in a
much worse state. And there's not really any _need_ for these patches,
until glib/gtk eventually break api and get rid of stock items. _Then_
we need these patches. So any responsible maintainer would reject these
patches for master and all current releases, and ask you to collect them
in bugzilla. Except I've pretty much given up on asking you, as you
still seem unable to even put a proper patch header (with bugzilla link)
on your work.

Stop asking. I will _not_ hand over maintainership to a hothead like you.

I would like to know who gave permission to you to became maintainer. Did not find any discussion on this topic.

> I am pretty sure that everyone on this mailing list is waiting for
> that. You have done nothing to improve this session. It is time to
> step down.
Don't make me laugh.

Are you thinking that anyone is happy with your work on this list? Lets ask...

Who thinks that Philipp should continue to maintain gnome-panel? And who thinks that I should take over?

That rather puts us all on the spot doesn't it? If maintainer-ship is purely a democratic decision Alberts gets my vote simply because he's been there for me nearly any time I encounter a bug related to the usage of the flashback session(s) in Ubuntu, Edubuntu, or Ubuntu GNOME.

I am curious however what role the GNOME Foundation plays in all of this? I know the flashback session is no longer an official GNOME project but we are still using the GNOME brand, as opposed to being a fork like Mate, so our (or more accurately your) work does reflect on GNOME to some degree does it not?


Do something constructive, coordinate your work with others, and learn
to ask for and accept feedback / reviews. _Then_ I'm willing to look at
further work from you.
Or shut up and go away, and leave us all alone. There's lots of good &
interesting work outstanding on gnome-panel and gnome flashback I'd much
rather spend my time on than keep having the same  discussion over and
over again with you.

Cheers
  Philipp

--
Philipp Kaluza
Ghostroute IT Consulting

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--
Alberts Muktupāvels


I'm only a lowly end user/tester so I can't contribute anything of great importance but I'm now a pensioner and I'm old enough to know that nothing kills any team effort faster than in-fighting at any level. I recall quite some time ago when the tone changed beginning with Philipp referring to Alberts (or at least his efforts) as lazy, and since then the exchange of terms such as lazy and stupid has grown to an untenable level.

I'd remind everyone of Jonathan Carter's suggestion of letting flashback die shortly after the release of Ubuntu Trusty, and in the meanwhile Mate is quickly approaching recognition as an official flavor of Ubuntu. So I think it's time for each of us to reevaluate both our personal intentions and behavior. I'd hope that we can mend fences and keep flashback alive.

Thank you,

Lance


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