Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013

[Emily Gonyer <emilyyrose gmail com>]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:06 AM, Vincent Untz <vuntz gnome org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le jeudi 21 novembre 2013, à 12:17 +0000, Allan Day a écrit :
> > Vincent Untz <vuntz gnome org> wrote:
> > > > Do we have examples of the guidelines "hurting us"?
> > >
> > > I can think of groups simply choosing to not use the GNOME logo anymore
> > > because they're afraid of not respecting the guidelines.
> >
> > I'd be interested in the specifics here. Could you send me contact
> > details for the groups concerned?
>
> I'd start with all the local groups that we have (see
> https://wiki.gnome.org/UserGroups -- it's likely outdated, though) and
> our downstreams (contact would be distributor-list).
>
> > > If I was
> > > completely new to the community, and I'd read the guidelines, I'd simply
> > > think that it's simpler to not use the logo at all. I'd not even ask...
> > >
> > > This hurts because I can imagine local groups not doing stickers,
> > > flyers, etc. because they'd be afraid of the guidelines. Back in the
> > > days when we started GNOME-FR, there were no guidelines so we went crazy
> > > and did many different things; we wouldn't have done all that with the
> > > current guidelines.
> >
> > Yeah, so the thing that I think we really miss is some examples of
> > what is cool to do. Like examples of t-shirts and stickers, and
> > original designs based on the logo. My understanding is that this
> > would require some work from the board...
>
> What about all the goodies we had at FOSDEM and GUADEC in the last 7 or
> 8 years? :-)
>
> > Right now the guidelines are pretty unfriendly (especially the
> > guidelines for third parties, which is one of the things I don't like
> > about them) and only really cover what you can't do, rather than what
> > you can. The new page I wrote makes an effort to do away with as much
> > unfriendliness as possible, but could be more welcoming and
> > accessible.
>
> Just to give an example of what we do in openSUSE:
> http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Trademark_guidelines
>
> To be clear, this page is clearly not the most friendly page out there
> (too complex), but it explicitly gives many examples of what can be done
> without requesting permission.
>
> > > > In the Ubuntu GNOME case, I think it's fair to ask about the logo,
> > > > irrespective of the trademark guidelines. Their logo [1] is
> > > > essentially the same as the GNOME logo itself; some differentiation
> > > > seems beneficial for both them and us. We don't have to be unfriendly
> > > > about it, but then a dialogue about how they can help to support the
> > > > GNOME brand doesn't seem like a bad thing.
> > >
> > > Of course it's fair, but to be honest, I'm fine with them using our
> > > logo. Fedora and openSUSE both use our logo too:
> > >   http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops
> > >   http://software.opensuse.org/131/en
> > >
> > > Sure, the context is slightly different, because you see all the flavors
> > > on the same page for Fedora and openSUSE, while it's not the case for
> > > Ubuntu GNOME. But it feels the same.
> >
> > The seem like different types of cases to me, to be honest.  Using the
> > GNOME foot as a logo for an independent project seems of a different
> > type to indicating that GNOME is featured in a piece of software. (The
> > latter is stated as fair use by the third party guidelines, fwiw.)
>
> Here's the thing: I don't see Ubuntu GNOME as an independent project,
> but as the result of the work of the GNOME team in Ubuntu, in very much
> the same way the GNOME team in openSUSE is able to produce a pretty good
> openSUSE+GNOME-based live image. And quoting their wiki page: "Ubuntu
> GNOME is an official flavour of Ubuntu, featuring the GNOME desktop
> environment." [1] That seams to match pretty well what you wrote above
> about Fedora and openSUSE.
>
> And really, coming back to one of my initial feeling: I actually want
> them to use our logo so they can help promote GNOME!

Exactly. I really don't understand whats not to like about Ubuntu
GNOME promoting the fact that if you use Ubuntu and you want GNOME (as
many of us do), there's a ready-made flavor for you. Ubuntu GNOME is
promoting GNOME - how/why is that a bad thing?

> Cheers,
>
> Vincent
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME
>
> --
> Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
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