Re: Official Compliant

[Ali Akcaagac <aliakc web de>]

On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 12:43 +0200, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote:
> The reason a lot of people excuse Mark's behaviour and chalk it up to
> "one bad day" is precisely because 99% of the time Mark has good days. 
> And on those good days, he contributes a lot of code, sends helpful
> emails, tries to unfuse discussions, and tries to keep lists on topic. 

Yeah but we shouldn't forget that his good days are being honoured with
a paycheque every month handed over by Red Hat. And the salery he get's
for working on GNOME will of course give him plenty of good days and a
lot of motivation to contribute a lot of code and a lot of helpful
emails to the list. I assume this to be the case since I see him writing
with a redhat.com domain name when he replies to emails and other stuff.
So I assume that he is working for Red Hat at that moment and that his
job is to contribute stuff to GNOME.

I feel sorry that I can not contribute the same amount of time and code
to GNOME. I am a poor guy who has other things to do every day to get
some salery and pay his bills and his food.

> If you want people to respect you you will have to change your
> behaviour.  It doesn't help anyone to say that everyone else should
> change their behaviour towards you.  Why is this a problem for you and
> nobody else ?

I don't see the point of having change myself. I am what I am and the
same way I behave on all sorts of communities and none of them except
some individuals within GNOME show these problems. I can't change to
have an american, australian, ägytian or indian way of life. I am what I
am, you are what you are and everyone else is an individual either.

My bad days only come when I am getting accused by people for junk I
never did and this summed up pretty much in the past. Once someone
showed up talking some junk about me, the next one hooked up there and
continued. Don't forget how you accused me for the armageddon stuff
which I never wrote. You didn't took the time or chance to either verify
it, you never took the time writing me an email asking me whether I was
responsible for it or not, you didn't even took the chance to contact my
ISP in GERMANY verifying whether the junk written and post from JAPAN
truly comes from me.

And you wonder why I have so many bad days when I read my name plastered
all over the places or join the IRC channel and immediately getting
attacked from the same crowd for junk I never did.

> Everyone is allowed to make mistakes.  Making them over and over and not
> learning from them is a bad idea.  One of the mistakes I've made in the
> past is to be rude back to you when you were rude.  I have learnt that
> that doesn't solve anything, and that is why nothing in this mail can be
> perceived as rude towards you (I hope).
> 
> Conversely, I think it'd be a good idea if you learnt that people reap
> what they sow, and that being rude towards lots of people on lots of
> occasions (I think your hate list now comprises at the very least Jeff,
> Havoc, Glynn, Mark, and me - a list of which the first four are
> respected members of the community),  will make it very hard for anyone
> to never ever be rude back to you.

It's a pretty nice try from your side to make the public believe that I
was rude, made a lot of mistakes, that I must change myself and and and.
The problem here is that this is not true. It's well written, a nice try
but not correct.

You don't know what I did and what I did not, you can't see my bad days
because I am most of the time sitting behind my computer and never met
you in real life, you don't know anything about me but you are full of
prejudices.

> I agree.  This is important.  Which is why I want to take a moment to
> inform other people about the general attitude of those four people on
> your hate list.  

Please excuse me I don't have a hate list. I only noticed that it's
always the same four people you mention who always seed the fire, who
put more petrol in it, who go on other places and spread even more shit
about other people.

> Havoc has responded to inquiries from me about a bug I wanted to fix in
> the panel which ended up being my first contribution to GNOME.

I have no problems with Havoc. I never seen him replying or seeding
fire. Even if I do not agree with all his decision made to GNOME I still
believe that he is one of the creditible persons. I think it's ok to
have some conversation with him and even disagreeing but I never ever
seen him talking on the back of people or accusing others on strange
lists for having done things they never did.

> There are lots and lots more people in the community I've had pleasant
> experiences with.

I can truly say the same. There is no need to be friends with everyone,
but there is an urgent need to 'respect' each other and other opinions.
Even if you disagree to these opinions you can bring it up normally or
back out of the entire conversation. There is no need to turn a normal
conversation into some insulting mess by namecalling people or trying to
make some sort of 'troll' out of them. The GNOME community reached a
point that everything some individual does not like to hear is marked as
'troll' the word 'troll' is over abused in the GNOME community. It's
impossible to have anormal conversation without having someone jump with
his nekkid ass on someones neck.

I have no problems when Mark or someone else comes up asking whether the
conversation could be shifted to another place. But it's usually the
tone that makes the music. Even if we know that some people might be a
bit 'problematic' we still have no right to enforce even more problems.
If you think I am 'problematic' then by now you should know the problems
and know howto avoid them. The same I do with other people too.

.....

I think this is enough as reply. Thanks for participating. But now tell
me how Eugenia deserved being attacked that way by Mark. You now told
plenty of time how evil and cruel I am I like to know how it's justified
against Eugenia or other participants. I believe we don't fit in your
vision and are all evil people who must change and who had a bad past.