Re: [Evolution] downloads page



Hi :)
I think devs are a subset of users.  Most devs use the tool they are writing (hopefully) so they are users too.  Some users do have skills but seldom use them so although they can't really be counted as devs most of us think of them as devs. 

Most of us users are completely useless at anything like this and wouldn't have a chance at being able to compile something.  I did once manage to compile something but it took me ages and i had no idea whether i had done a bad job or a good one or what to do if it suddenly fell over.  Still at least copy&pasting instructions seemed to get the job done.  Most of us would give up rather than even attempt compiling. 

However i do sometimes find people do intuitively understand this sort of thing even though they might not be trained in it, and therefore not learned bad-habits.  With a bit of luck for every 100 normal users you get a few that have skills or are quick learners. 

Rejecting all users or stereotyping them means you miss out.  Equally, expecting all users to already have skills is unrealistic but don't assume they are all write-offs or not worth the time. 

Regards from
Tom :) 




From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam whitemice org>
To: evolution-list gnome org
Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2013, 15:57
Subject: Re: [Evolution] downloads page

On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 14:52 +0200, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> > Von: "Alberto Ruiz" <aruiz redhat com>
> > In the meantime, even if less than ideal, we have to cope with the fact
> > that it's distros who distribute Evolution.
> That actually _is_ the ideal way.
> Someone writes a nice programme. Someone else packages it for their
> distribution A and again somebody else for distribution B.
> Instead of running around the internet and chasing multiple download
> pages you do a simple central update with the for your distribution
> typical tools to get a new version.

+1 +1 +1.  I cannot imagine any reason at all someone would want to 'go
back' to the old way of download-and-install, uh oh, it is broken, it
needs that other...

There simply is no problem here to solve.

> Occasionally a distribution will hang behind,

Yes, that is to be expected.  It is a problem when they hang WAY WAY
behind, or when they do not provide an avenue for user's who desire more
current [at greater risk] versions.  But all the mainstream ones do...
so no problem, again.

>  occasionally a distribution will
> ignore a new release and very occasionally a distribution will make a conscious
> choice of not implementing an update. A user can then either choose to
> live with these facts, change distribution or (if they are technically
> able) create their own updated version from sources.

I'd disagree, a *user* cannot "create their own updated version from
sources".  A user does not build software; developers do.  If you are
compiling stuff - you are a developer, albeit possibly a very bad one.

> My current main laptop has 2500 programme packages installed. I would
> think this is fairly norm. For the vast majority (2498 packages to be
> exact) I am not in the slightest interested to have the most bang up
> to date version. For the two remaining ones - I am a contributing
> developer, so I compile them from source.

... so you are a developer.  The constant swapping of contexts between
user and developer is in part what makes this thread senseless.  It is
moving the mileposts while measuring.

If you build software you are a developer;  do not confuse yourself with
a user [who has neither the interest nor skills to do such a thing].
For a non-trivial application such as Evolution a non-trivial skill set
is required to build.

> Unless you produce something very special or something in closed
> source, you would be a fool to replicate half heartedly and half
> arsedly the often considerably well thought through infrastructure of
> a major distribution.

Yep.

> And unless you are desperately waiting for a brand new feature/bug fix
> from a specific package there is no reason whatsoever not to wait for your
> own distribution to update itself. Which it will do at some point.
> Painlessly and unnoticably, usually.

Yep.

--
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam whitemice org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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