Re: [Evolution] Applying filters automatically.

On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 15:37 +0000, Gavin Simpson wrote:
On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 12:40 +0000, Pete Biggs wrote:
On Fri, 2008-02-01 at 17:19 -0700, Steve Karmesin wrote:
On Feb 1, 2008 5:08 PM, Pete Biggs <pete biggs org uk> wrote:
        BUT - I do think it needs to be sorted out - I regularly
        answer this
        same question on the list and it is clearly not intuitive to
        people.  It
        may be an issue with particular IMAP clients or particular
        of setups, but it does need to be documented.

I just want to reiterate:  this isn't just not intuitive, it is not
nearly as useful to many users.  Why not have the mode that mimics
what t-bird does as an option?

But what *does* Thunderbird do?  A few people have said that it's better
at doing it, but no one has actually enumerated the logic that it goes
through.  i.e. does it only filter 'unread' or unseen to that particular
client instance or does it mark a message as having been filtered?

Lets see if I can give a non-programmer's view of what tbird does ( I
just installed it on my Fedora box to try with my University IMAP

Tbird was set to check for new messages once every 10 minutes. I created
a single message filter to match messages from another email list I am
on. This filter was set to move any messages from this mailing list to a
different folder on the IMAP server.

When the 10 minutes were up tbird checked for new messages, notified me
that new messages were downloaded, and then went through each new
message that was downloaded and checked it against the filter. The two
new messages that were from the mailing list were marked as read and
marked deleted in the INBOX, the message was moved to the correct
folder, where it was marked as Unread. The new messages not matching a
filter, remained marked as unread in the INBOX.

Tbird only filters new messages automatically - the ones it just
downloaded, not others in my inbox.

This is what Evo does not do. All messages are left in the INBOX
regardless of filters when new messages arrive in my INBOX. So tbird
does what I want and Evo doesn't in this regard.

I think it might be helpful to enumerate the various flags that messages
can have, so we can define exactly what we would like Evo to do. This is
a first attempt; please correct it if necessary:

Unseen: this is an IMAP server state which only the server can
manipulate. Messages which have never been opened by any client are
marked Unseen, otherwise they're not.

New: the IMAP client marks as New those messages which *it* hasn't seen
before. Thus the client can set/unset this flag as it likes, but the
state is not reflected on the server so other clients will not be aware
of it. (I may be wrong about this).

Read: the IMAP client marks messages which it has shown to the user as
being Read, but this is highly configuration and client-dependant. Most
clients set the Read state after a configurable number of seconds. Some
allow you to turn this off completely (Evo does, TB doesn't). In any
case, this state *is* reflected on the server so other clients can see
it, depending on when a server sync is done. (I may also be wrong about

I suspect that the difference between Evo and most other clients is that
Evo only filters messages marked Unseen, while other clients filter
those they consider New and ignore the Unseen state. Note that
Unseen=>New=>!Read but that's about the only guaranteed relation between
the flags and I'm not even sure about New=>!Read for all clients.


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