Re: [OT] Re: [Fwd: Re: Two 3.10 feature ideas]

[אנטולי קרס נר <tombackton gmail com>]

Hello Karen,

I must say I really like your writing skill and excellent verbal
expression ability :)
Thanks for making things clear. I agree with you, providing access to
popular services is a pre-requisite for many people, while providing
free-software alternatives is still a primary goal, and always should
be.

On ו', 2013-04-12 at 15:27 -0400, Karen Sandler wrote:
> On Fri, April 12, 2013 1:51 pm, ×× ×˜×•×œ×™ ×§×¨×¡× ×¨ wrote:
> > I wasn't implying closed-source software succeeds, it was sarcasm.
> >
> > Anyway, arguing on different believes and priorities is pointless, I'll
> > stop here. I got the point, you want a bigger market share. But I don't
> > understand why. I mean, why is that the primary goal? It sounds like a
> > goal for a commercial company.
>
> I've got to chime in here too - I want to bring free software to more
> people as part of our nonprofit charitable mission. I believe that it is
> really important to our society that we build free alternatives to the
> proprietary systems that are increasingly being relied on for critical
> functionality. Free software is the right answer for all software, but we
> do have a basic challenge in providing the alternatives that people will
> want to use. I want to encourage a move to good online services, but I
> also know that providing a way for users to continue to use the services
> that they already count on is a pre-requisite for many. It's a complicated
> issue, and I think we need to work as hard as possible to build
> alternatives and to encourage users towards fully free and ethically built
> software and services. But we also must be an immediately viable
> alternative.
>
> karen
>
> > Anyway, you do what you believe in and I'll do what I believe in. I
> > understand now, why Gnome supplies all those "bad" plugins before it
> > tries to offer replacements.
> >
> > There are enough modules for me to work on, which aren't related to
> > Facebook or Google.
> >
> > See you around
> >
> > On ו', 2013-04-12 at 19:29 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2013-04-12 at 19:40 +0300, ×× ×˜×•×œ×™ ×§×¨×¡× ×¨ wrote:
> > > > What does "competing on the market" mean? Do you get a salary for
> > > > working on Gnome projects, which depends on how many people use your
> > > > software?
> > >
> > > Primarily, markets are based on interest & attention, not money.
> > >
> > > > Since when is "increasing the user base" a primary goal? If that's
> > > we're
> > > > after, let's start writing closed-source software. Microsoft, Google,
> > > > Facebook and many others succeed more than Gnome, maybe we should just
> > > > follow them and abandon the Free Software idea.
> > >
> > > You imply that because of being closed-source, other projects are more
> > > successful, but it's more likely that they are successful for a number
> > > of other reasons while being closed-source. So that's a false cause.
> > >
> > > But we might differ on defining "success" here, I'm thinking in terms of
> > > userbase and marketshare, you might not.
> > >
> > > > Now seriously, which goal is more important: spreading software
> > > freedom
> > > > and free-as-in-freedom computing, or just getting more people to use
> > > > Gnome (which doesn't increase anyone's salary anyway)?
> > >
> > > To me both is important. Plus not sure why you mention salaries.
> > >
> > > > In my opinion, the point is that the developers themselves should care
> > > > about software freedom, and make that a high-priority goal, rather
> > > than
> > > > feeding their ego by having users migrate to Gnome.
> > >
> > > So "caring about software freedom" does not feed your ego by making you
> > > feel more morale compared to closed-source? Good, then.
> > >
> > > >  You can't spread
> > > > freedom if you're not consistent with your own ideas. People will say,
> > > > "all that open source/free software thing is bullshit, look at them.
> > > > They supply a direct connection to Facebook and GMail and Twitter from
> > > > the desktop, before them even bother to give us a free alternative.
> > > It's
> > > > all bullshit, let's go back to Windows."
> > >
> > > "People will say" misses a citation, but I can come up with that too:
> > > "People will say that the open source/free software thing is bullshit,
> > > they don't even offer basic integration with the most common services on
> > > the interwebs. Freedom is nice, but I need to get my work done."
> > >
> > > Anyway, I prefer to make GNOME good, easy, beautiful for everybody, not
> > > just for people who already know and care about software freedom.
> > >
> > > andre
> >
> >
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