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Re: [Fwd: Re: Two 3.10 feature ideas]

I know free software alternatives exist, but some apps don't even
support them.

If we want people to migrate, let's just support proprietary media
formats. Let's support anything the users actually use. Even
closed-source tools. Why not, if it's what they use??? [sarcasm]

I agree I don't have to add a Facebook account to GOA, but you make a
mistake assuming what users want is the right thing. Fact: many people
are addicted to Facebook. Fact: many of them know it's bad. Fact: it
doesn't make them stop using it. Fact: if Gnome is good enough without
Facebook, it can help them stop using it. Fact: it supplies integration
and GOA accounts, thus the users remain addicted.

Fine, keep the Facebook account, just give users the option to never see
and use it. Also, why waste time on it? Go ahead, write plugins, but why
FOCUS on Facebook and Twitter? I'd rather fix random bugs.

If integrating Windows Live, Facebook and Google is the way to make
people migrate to Gnome, I'm ashamed of that. Ashamed of being a part of
that. We can keep those features, but give them the lowest prioprity. If
Gnome is good enough, people will come anyway. Otherwise, I prefer they
don't come, than the case they come because of Facebook and MSN
integration.

What I'm saying is: Sometimes users don't know what's best for them.
It's okay, nobody's perfect. But why help the devil? Let's guide them to
using free-software alternatives! GNU and Gnome are supposed to me
committed to freedom, not to users' wishes. Users wish to use facebook,
but that's just an issue of addiction and not understanding software
freedom and privacy. We can't let that change our goals.

Anyway, you get the point.

You're welcome to have all those features, just make sure I can have all
of them using free software. And make that the first priority. THEN you
can add facebook and google. They're in wide use, but I can't let them
be in the highest priority. It just wouldn't make any sense.

Good luck! And never forget, freedom and privacy are above all :)

On ו', 2013-04-12 at 00:24 +0200, Matteo Settenvini wrote:

With the new notifications panel, if you find notifications from a
certain source annoying you can disable them. Also, in the online
accounts panel you don't have to add what you don't want to. If these
notifications distract you, just don't add them in the first place.

We already have Facebook and Google as sources in GOA, as well as Flickr
and Windows Live. While I am myself fighting for freedom on our
platforms, and I fully agree Diaspora would be a nice addition, I don't
see what keeps us to integrate our desktop to other websites for those
users that would like to use them anyway. 

Choosing to fire up a browser and go visit that website (authenticating
inside Epiphany/Firefox), or choosing to manually add an online account
(authenticating with g-o-a) only changes the interaction medium, but
it's up to the user to decide what to do.

I am just proposing to have a generic framework to handle messages from
social networks for those users who care to keep notifications enabled /
manually configure them in GOA. StatusNet (and Identi.ca) is another
free-software example of something that could benefit from this
approach. As you see, there are free-software alternatives to
proprietary ones, and they shouldn't be penalized. The framework would
be source-agnostic.

In fact, I believe that having Identi.ca supported by GOA would help
boost its popularity, making it a more prominent alternative against,
for instance, Twitter.

That said, other desktop environments such as Mac OS X Mountain Lion,
and Windows 8, both have integrated support for these things. I am not
saying "let's do like they do", just pointing out that there might be a
use case for users migrating from other platforms to GNOME.

Cheers,
Matteo

------- Messaggio inoltrato -------
Da: אנטולי קרסנר <tombackton gmail com>
A: daniel mustieles gmail com
CC: matteo member fsf org, GNOME Desktop Development List
<desktop-devel-list gnome org>
Oggetto: Re: Two 3.10 feature ideas
Data: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:30:42 +0300

The first idea sounds good, but I don't think the second one is worth
anyone's effort.

Just a personal opinion, but as a Facebook user in the past, I've seen
how loads of notifications keep you addicted and distracted and don't
let you do the useful things you planned to do.

There may be some use to such notifications, but basically - you would
just be helping Facebook, Twitter and Google+ get more people addicted.
And all three of them are proprietary and have known storied about how
they use people's private data...

So in my opinion, working on these notifications is one of the most
not-important things we can possibly work on. I prefer to fix random
bugs than help Facebook track people and control their lives.

I know Google sponsors Gnome, but it doesn't change the fact I fight for
software freedom, and I don't want to use Facebook or Twitter or Google
mail/docs service. I do use this GMail mailbox, but I know it's bad and
I'm looking for replacements. There's Diaspora, for example.

I know many people here actually work for RedHat, but all those of you
who care about software freedom purely: Do you really want
Facebook/Google/Twitter to take over the desktop? If they do, Gnome will
become just another desktop environment, not any better than Windows.
Freedom and privacy are killer features, ladies and gentlemen. At least
in my humble opinion. Let's not give up on them so easily.

But do go ahead with the Evolution idea :)

- Anatoly Krasner

On ה', 2013-04-11 at 22:09 +0200, Daniel Mustieles García wrote:

For the first idea, maybe something like this could be useful:

http://code.google.com/p/gnome-gmail-notifier/

I've been using it in both GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 ant id works properly
with notifications, so it would be a good starter point.

Cheers!

2013/4/11 Matteo Settenvini <matteo-ml member fsf org>
        Dear all,
        
        unfortunately, I don't know if I will have the manpower in the
        next six
        months to contribute actively to GNOME, so I'm just dropping
        two ideas
        for features here. I believe they would benefit a good number
        of users.
        
        * Finally have evolution display notifications for new
        messages while
        the main UI is not open. There was a proposal in this
        direction several
        cycles ago, but I believe it was postponed indefinitely. Has
        evolution-data-server all the needed pieces? This is not
        conceptually
        much different than notifications for new chat messages. Sure,
        it can be
        achieved by some another different small program which needs
        to be
        configured separately, but it would be nice to have this well
        integrated
        with the rest of the GNOME experience.
        
        * Add social network notifications. Some of them could be
        read-only
        notifications (e.g. for Google+, which does not provide a
        write API),
        others could afford to offer an interface similar to the one
        used for
        chat (e.g. for Facebook and Twitter) where you can respond.
        Gwibber
        attempted to do some of these things, but a solution
        integrated with
        g-o-a (which already has the authentication pieces in place) +
        gnome-shell seem to make much sense.
        
        Anyway, thanks for your strenuous work!
        
        Cheers,
        --
        Matteo Settenvini
        FSF Associated Member
        Email : matteo member fsf org
        
        
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