Re: Using python + pygtk in Desktop modules

[danilo gnome org (Danilo Šegan)]

Hi Sean,

Today at 19:26, Sean Middleditch wrote:

> GCC3 did indeed break a lot of things.  It's not an excuse to keep
> breaking things left and right.

Agreed.  So, lets see what we can do to improve Python situation
further (remember, it's possible to have *most* PyGTK apps be
distributed even in architecture-independent packages, which would be 
another advantage).  So, can we turn this in our favour, introducing
"binary" packages which will work on any sane installation of
Gnome+Python?

I see it as quite possible, and even easier to achieve than
maintaining C binaries that work everywhere.  So, wouldn't you rather
prefer to have a dozen packages which are architecture dependent in
Gnome (eg. Gtk+, glib, ..., PyGTK), and have 30+ apps which are
independent of architecture even?  (ok, not for performance reasons,
but lets pretend we're discussing only packaging benefits ;-)

> I am not talking about the Python app ABI, I'm talking about the C API
> Python exposes.

I understand that, but the problem we have now is using Python for
developing applications.  Cannot we assume that all systems are to
have correct installation of it?  Sure, one can break any
installation, no matter how robust it is (just do as root "rm
/path/to/libgtk-x11-*", and no Gtk+ apps will work anymore; to what
extent is this different from messing up [upgrading it "incorrectly", or
whatever] system-wide Python installation?)

So, Python C-based modules will need recompilation when Python is
changed on the system.  This means PyGTK might also need
recompilation, but our applications won't.  I consider "incorrect
upgrade" one in which Python is updated, and not all Python modules
which need compilation are.

> Actually, people complain left and right about Mozilla, and many
> developers are still waiting for the API/ABI stable GRE.  You'll also
> note that Mozilla is not part of the Developer Platform; we don't tell
> third-party app developers to use Mozilla, because we know it's
> unstable.

Python is neither proposed to become part of developer platform.
PyGTK is part of Gnome Bindings, which warrants a stable API, and
we're to have *desktop* modules (capplets, CD player, ...) that use
it.  Just like Epiphany uses Mozilla.  And I believe Evolution does to
some extent as well (NSS?).

This discussion was not about suggesting everybody to use PyGTK as
best programming language for Gnome (i.e. it's not the famous Mono
vs. Java debate), but to allow PyGTK apps to be included in
mainstream Gnome.

Lets not turn this into what it is not.

Cheers,
Danilo