Re: Using python + pygtk in Desktop modules (was Re: Revisiting the Gnome Bindings)

[Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>]

On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 11:36 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote:
> Jonathan said:
> > I would love to see limited use of python in the desktop release for
> > GNOME 2.10.
> 
> I'd love to see whether this idea can fly, and I like the idea of
> maintainers getting what they need for their own specific modules.
> 
> We all have our different favourite languages, but I think we are all
> capable of hacking on Python even if we don't all love it [1], so I don't
> think its use would prevent contributions. And it's already widespread on
> distros, so I don't think it would be adding a big new dependency. [2]

The biggest problem with Python that I see is that the Python developers
constantly break ABI with each release.  User gets a new Python and
blam, most of their third-party Python apps and libraries stop working.
There's no way to upgrade your distro without also upgrading most of
your Python apps and libs with it, which may not be possible for many
users until someone else does the work for them.  It's just a huge
hassle.

It's as if the GTK ABI were to break with each minor release version.
There's a reason we don't do that.  I don't think we should have the
desktop rely on a scripting language that itself doesn't follow the ABI
stability rules the rest of the GNOME development platform adheres to,
or the rest of the desktop platform requires.

When a Python app or lib can be installed on a system running Python 2.3
and still work when the machine is upgraded to 2.4, then it would become
a much more reliable and serious environment to rely on in GNOME.

And, before someone says it, yes I know that you can install Python 2.3
and Python 2.4 at the same time.  That doesn't fix the fact that one
third party lib is only installed in 2.3, and the maybe the only
packages you find for another lib are for 2.4, and the app you want to
run is either hard-coded for one Python version or has no way to figure
out which version to run as to get all the libs it needs.  Yes, it's
possible for an experienced user to hack around, but it shouldn't need
an experienced user to Just Work(tm) the way the rest of the system does
when upgraded.
-- 
Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>
AwesomePlay Productions, Inc.