Re: About applications remembering size

["Andrew W. Nosenko" <awn bcs zp ua>]

Manuel Clos wrote:
: Andrew W. Nosenko wrote:
: >"from a perspective of a *some* users" will be more correct.  Because, as
: >example, I'm very annoyed by auto-remember size behavior, not by "don't
: >remember".  Therefore list of "good"/"bad" applications, provided by
: >you, is totally inverted from my point of view.
: 
: What then? windows always come in the same size? the one the programer 
: choose? having to resize a browser window every time you open a new one? 
: user run resolutions from 800x600 to 1600x1200.

Application's windows comes in the last saved size (with fallback to
hardcoded by developer size of saved size not found).  But application
should not try to save size *automatically*, without explicitly user's
request.

: Gnumeric saving window size for documents will help, but you can't 
: (shouldn't) do this for websites.

Yes.  And this "can't (shouldn't) do this for websites" is one from my
goals.  But Galeon have another thinks about it (always saves window
size and the dot.)  :-(

Ideally (from my point of view), auto-save/do-not-auto-save should be
customizable in the per-application basis.  But, if this is impossible
in the some way, then disabling of the autosave (with possibility of
explicitly-save) of window size will be good work around.

: Perhaps you can illustrate you point with some examples?
See above.

: 
: >My opinion: any application should have something like
: >
: >    Remember window size?
: >    () always
: >    () ask user
: >    () never
: >
: >radio button group.
: >Or "[] Auto-remember window size?" checkbox...
: 
: No GUI for this please. If it is ever to get implemented, make it a 
: gconf key (maybe global and not per app?).

See above: my ideal is per-application tuning.  And choice "what should
be saved automatically" and "what should be saved by explicitly request"
-- is user choice.  If implement this over gconf only, this will means
what regular user should be familiar with gconf and gconftool, what is
not true and is not the right way (IMHO).  Therefore, nice GUI required
here.

: 
: >May be replacing the "... window size" by "... window size, positions
: >and opened documents" will be more applicable... -- I can't say because
: >have a plans to disable auto-remembering anywhere when this disabling
: >become possible.
: >
: >(There is some points for discussion: e.g. if no opened documents are
: >remembered, only window size, then what behavior should be in the
: >following scenario:
: >
: >    1. start application
: >    2. open two documents in the two windows
: >    3. resize one of windows (says window #2) and leave window #1 
: >    untouched.
: >    4. close application (Ctrl+Q)
: >
: >Now is question: when we start application again what size should have
: >newly opened window?  Size of "window #1" or "window #2"?)
: 
: Easy. You opened window #2 last, so it will close last. Remember the 
: size of window #2.

Real live example:
0. Goal #1: see, how will rendered your web-page at range of browser-window
            sizes.
   Goal #2: after these games, default browser's window size should be
            leaved unchanged.
1. Start galeon
   [opened "window #1"]
2. Open new window
   [opened "window #2"]
   New window supposed to be victim of these size-related games.
   Old window (window #1) supposed to be "size-standard" and kept
   unchanged.
3. Open your web-page in the "window #2", resize as you want and see
   results.

4. Close "window #2"
5. Close "window #1"
   Because last closed window was "window #1", then Galeon saves size
   of "standard-sized" "window #1".

But if you press Ctrl-Q instead of Ctrl-W (just by mistake), and your
suggestion about "remember size of last changed window" will be
implemented, then you lost your "preferred size"; moreover, you lost this
size without any hope to restore (without deep games around of
saved-session) because metacity doesn't show window size at resize
operations.

What will occurred at current galeon's implementation I don't know.
Reason: If for some reason galeon will save wrong (non-preferred by me)
window size, then I will enforced to spend noticeable amount of time to
recover from this situation.  -- I don't want to waste my time.  And
this is reason why I'm never change sizes of my windows without *very*
strong needs.  Exception exists only for XEmacs and XTerm because I know
what these applications don't play in the "I'm smarter than user" games.

: >
: >Sure.  User should have control.  You annoyed by impossibility to
: >*enable* "auto-remember size" for some applications...  I'm annoyed by
: >impossibility to *disable* "auto-remember size" for some applications...
: >Only one way, which I see, to resolve this opposition is allow to you
: >select- and to me deselect this feature.
: 
: Go GConf!
: 

But where is this key? :-)

-- 
Andrew W. Nosenko    (awn bcs zp ua)