Re: [Usability] Can't Handle it anymore! (Consistent toolbars?)



On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Logan Rathbone wrote:

> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:15:33 -0500
> From: Logan Rathbone <logan rathbone utoronto ca>
> To: usability gnome org
> Subject: Re: [Usability] Can't Handle it anymore!  (Consistent toolbars?)
>
> On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 23:03 +0200, Samuel Abels wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-30-03 at 17:41 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
> > > One last question (or reiterating my previous question) should menubars
> > > all have handles too?
> >
> > They are probably rarely used on toolbars, so IMO there is not much need
> > for the same on menus.
> >

> Personally, I think not.  The MenuBar is not something I would ever want
> to reposition, personally.

I didn't think I'd ever want to use Toolbars with both Icons and Text
showing but I've come to prefer having it by default when using or
learning an unfamiliar application and only switching to Icons only or
Priority Text when I am much more familiar with the application.

My point is these things may turn out to be useful in hindsight, and I
think if done correctly they can be added without upsetting existing
users.

> -- I know detachable toolbars can be disabled -- but if it is the
> default to have them enabled and will remain so, having MenuBars
> detachable just sounds like a big no-no.

>From this discussion and the current state of Gnome I would definately
want to keep toolbar handles hidden by default.  Given the current
developer dislike of toolbar handles I am also leaning towards
the idea of having toolbar handles off by default too.
I should be able to produce the necessary patches but of course if anyone
else is willing to help I would much appreciate it.  I'll file a set of
bugs/plans shortly.

> > What could make them [gtk toolbars] more useful?
>
> I pretty much agree with all the other replies -- GTK toolbar support is
> weak -- they should be able to go side-by-side, etc.  One thing that's
> always bugged me is that the toolbars don't hold their position.  In
> Galeon -- in fact it might be *only* Galeon because I haven't tried
> anywhere else -- I can reposition the toolbars in some pretty creative
> ways, including getting the Search toolbar and the Location/Navigational
> toolbar next to each-other creating a very Firefox-like effect -- but as
> soon as I close and re-open the browser, it's back to the way it was.  I
> think toolbar location memory would be awesome.

I dont use Galeon (I'm an embittered user of the Mozilla Suite, and will
remain so for the forseeable future) I cannot say specifically what might
be going on but there are a few different underlying toolbar systems
currently in use, some Bonobo based with fully fledged docking, some
experimental versions (from libegg, probably gnome and glade variations
too) and of course the bog standard gtk toolbars.

Some days I really wish I hadn't learnt about usability then these minor
details and inconsistencies wouldn't bother me quite so much.  :)


Boilerplate: I'm answering a bunch of different questions and I've
resisted the temptation to cram them into one mail, instead I'm adding
this boilerplate conclusion to save people reading all my other warblings.
At this point I need to file HIG bugs, a bug against gnome-ui-proprerties
(and hopefully a patch) and then bring this all to the attention of
developers, either through one of the lists or individual bug reports.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time and showing an interest in this
discussion.


Sincerely

Alan Horkan

Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Abiword http://www.abisource.com
Dia http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

Alan's Diary http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/




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