Re: [Rhythmbox-devel] yet another new mockup (meta)

[Jorn Baayen <jorn nl linux org>]

sön 2003-05-11 klockan 23.51 skrev Daniel Borgmann:
> On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 22:11, Jorn Baayen wrote:
> > > Burn makes no sense in the library source, but does in the playlist
> > > source. I think the idea of a meta-button as I described in 
> > > my writeup is really useful. It's either toggle browser or new smart
> > > playlist in library, burn in playlist, and rip in cd.
> > 
> > Hrm, I think burn makes sense in the library because, why would burning
> > a playlist work and not burning an album? To the user they should be
> > more or less the same thing, a different view of your music collection.
> > (Especially true with vfolders and such)
> > 
> > But it doesnt matter to me much whether we have it or not, just.. well.
> > 
> > Since we cannot use a text label (no space) on the meta button I think
> > it might get pretty confusing. (Whats this button with its everchanging
> > icon?). It's even in the player area which makes it extra confusing.
> 
> But we can use a text label. We just have to find rather short labels
> and then make the button as large as the largest of those labels. This
> is already commonly done in Gtk dialogs to provide more consistent
> button spacing (see the close confirmation in gedit). If we use somewhat
> smart short labels and a longer descriptive tooltip AND a descriptive
> icon, it should work very well. "Burn a CD" (or "Burn to CD), "Rip from
> CD", "New/Create Playlist" (or "VPlaylist" maybe) and "Show/Hide
> Browser" would work very well for example. Certainly a _lot_ better than
> a simple icon and I also like the idea of such a meta button very much.
> :)

Again, languages, I'm strongly against osmething like this - it's not
going to work well at all for a lot of non-English stuff.

> 
> 
> > > 
> > > One thing I never said about Daniel;s mockup is that the 
> > > meta button cannot have text in it because when the button changes
> > > the text would have to change, changing the size of the button, and 
> > > that is just horrible ui.
> > > 
> > > > - instead there is a 'show browser' checkbox, purpose immediately clear
> > > > in the source area (probably useful for playlists too, especially
> > > > 'vplaylists')
> > > 
> > > I really don't like the idea of a browser for playlists. Playlist are
> > > ment to be chronological...
> > 
> > Playlists, yes - but not these vfolder thingies.. like 'all rock with a
> > rating higher than 4'. You probably want to be able to browse that.
> 
> Hmm, couldn't you just use the library view then? This sounds reasonable
> though and the "toggle browser" function of the meta button is actually
> the only one I'm a bit worried about (from a usability POV). How about
> adding a "Toggle Browser" control somewhere (like in your mockup or just
> in the menu) and make the meta button be "Burn to CD" in library view,
> too? 

No, with the lbrary view you cant filter out certain ratings and stuff..
would be too complex for the browser.

Actually I'm beginning to be against the CD burning button.. but I kidna
think we need a browser toggler somewhere, an expander arrow like you
did is prety cool I think.

> 
> > > 
> > > > - shuffle button with label to make it clearer
> > > 
> > > I could be wrong but to me this looks very like an action button and
> > > would expect it to actually shuffle the current song list as apposed to
> > > playing in a shuffled manner.
> > 
> > Hrm, maybe.. I'm not sure. Fat chance that is because we have all seen
> > iTunes and the previous mockups. 
> 
> I don't even understand the iTunes UI yet ;) but I had exactly the same
> thought as Mark. This looks like an action button and "shuffle" could
> just as well mean to physically shuffle the songs around. Not a big deal
> but a minor nitpick. :)

Although shuffling physically would rock we cant do that.. (think
library). But yea I guess you're right..

> 
>  
> > > > - no repeat button (not necessary I think..)
> > > 
> > > I think it's important and useful...
> > 
> > Why? (Useful, sure, but not often toggled so is it worth being given
> > such as prominent place?)
> 
> Oh absolutely! That's why I think those things fit well into the
> statusbar. The important thing isn't that you can toggle them quickly,
> but that you can always see weither they are active or not. I definately
> want to know weither I am repeating my playlist or not. :) And I see no
> harm in combining that with a toggle function (the checkbox).
> This is actually how I came up with the idea in the first place. I
> thought "hmm it would be nice to have some small icons (like a lamp)
> showing weither those things are active or not. A label could be used to
> make them descriptive. And it would be nice if I could toggle them,
> too". Then I realized that this is exactly what checkboxes do.

I agree with you here now.:)

> 
> > > Personally I much prefer Daniel's mockup, if we remove the text from the
> > > meta button, and change it to toggling the browser. That is the only
> > > think i can find fault with and that is a lot better than anything else
> > > anyone has come up with. I think he's earned the pint.
> > > 
> > > The big search box may be fairly useless but IMHO it looks a lot better,
> > > and the checkboxes for repeat and shuffle are a lot clearer than
> > > buttons.
> > 
> > I think the huge search box looks pretty bad, but it's not a big deal..
> 
> Yep I thought exactly the same while creating it but thought it would
> look better than leaving out so much empty space. Meanwhile I rather
> like it though. However, placing something else useful there certainly
> wouldn't hurt. That's why I wrote that it adds some "breathing room" in
> my original mail. ;) Your "show browser" thingy could very well be it
> (it should be an expander IMO) and the space could be kept empty when
> it's not available. 
> The downside of it is, that it adds some visual noise:
> http://server204.serverflex.de/Screenshots/rhythmbox-meta2.png
> I'm undecided weither I like this better or not.

I'm loving this. There needs to be more padding between the playing
controls and the volume control though, but that's minor.

Not sure about the create playlist button. Maybe we should just have the
volume button there instead and no action button at all. Or have the
create playlist button somewhere near the source selector.. not sure
that would look good though. But actually I don't think it's used often
enough to need to be in the main ui like that.
http://nl.linux.org/~jorn/e.png

> 
> 
> > IMHO a checkbox is just as clear as a togglebutton with a label.... :)
> 
> It's not so clear that it is a toggle. I would also expect it to look
> rather ugly to have this big fat button constantly pressed down. :D I
> think this space works much better for something as important as the
> meta button. Why should "shuffle" get that much of a prominent place
> anyway? :)

Yea I much prefer the toggles now actually.

> 
> Daniel
> 
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