Re: [orca-list] Odd issue with the Riot web client

[Nolan Darilek <nolan thewordnerd info>]

Oh good. It seemed to go away for a while, then returned, then Firefox 
itself crashed a time or two. :) Because I couldn't see the mouse 
moving, I couldn't figure out why it failed when it did. Really thought 
I was losing my sanity--what little I think I have left, at least.


On 1/23/20 7:53 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> Hey again Nolan.
>
> Update: I found a way to reproduce this, but it's only broken in 
> Firefox. Orca + Chromium (at least my locally-built chromium) works as 
> expected. Toolbar goes poof and the press of Up Arrow moves you to the 
> message above the one which went poof. So.... I'll add this to my todo 
> list.
>
> If you're curious, what I suspect is be happening is that your mouse 
> pointer just so happens to be over a chat message. As a result, the 
> message it just so happens to be over has an associated 
> message-actions toolbar which you are able to arrow to (though I wind 
> up on the toolbar; not a button child). Then something is causing the 
> toolbar you're in to vanish. This can happen if you move the physical 
> mouse pointer or if the associated message scrolls off screen (e.g. as 
> a side effect of your arrowing).
>
> --joanie
>
> On 1/22/20 7:14 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hey Nolan.
> >
> > tl;dr: Seems that you're in the Message Actions toolbar when it goes 
> > poof! The document itself then claims focus. Orca tries to figure out 
> > where you should be. It concludes the list (good), but the first item 
> > in that list (bad). I can try to improve things in Orca -- which 
> > already has a lot of logic to recover from things going poof! But 
> > maybe the Riot devs can help with clues and/or solutions on their 
> > end? Also, push buttons should have names. At least one in Riot 
> > apparently doesn't....
> >
> > Details:
> >
> > Note that the following snippets are extremely trimmed down to 
> > eliminate irrelevant noise:
> >
> > vvvvv CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) vvvvv
> > 16:27:57 - SPEECH OUTPUT: '16:14 link.'
> > Joanie: Caret nav puts you on the timestamp.
> > ^^^^^ CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:children-changed:add:system vvvvv
> > 16:27:57 - OBJECT EVENT: ... (2, 0, [tool bar | Message Actions])
> > Joanie: Messages Actions presumably popped up.
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:children-changed:add:system ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused vvvvv
> > 16:27:57 - OBJECT EVENT: ... (1, 0, 0) ... name='16:14' role='link'
> > 16:27:57 - WEB: Event ignored: Last command was caret nav
> > Joanie: Focus claim - set the caret on the link (already presented)
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) vvvvv
> > 16:27:57 - WEB: Current context is: [link | 16:14], 0
> > 16:27:57 - ORCA: Changing locusOfFocus to [push button | ]
> > Joanie: Note this button lacks a name. That's not good. What is it?
> > 16:27:57 - SPEECH OUTPUT: 'push button.'
> > ^^^^^ CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:children-changed:add:system vvvvv
> > 16:27:57 - OBJECT EVENT: ... (2, 0, [tool bar | Message Actions])
> > Joanie: Messages Actions presumably popped up.
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:children-changed:add:system ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused vvvvv
> > 16:27:58 - OBJECT EVENT: ... (1, 0, 0) ... role='push button'
> > 16:27:58 - WEB: Event ignored: Last command was caret nav
> > Joanie: Focus claim - set the caret on the button (already presented)
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:property-change:accessible-name vvvvv
> > 16:27:58 - ... Peter Vágner 16:13 I'm running Firefox nightly 74 and 
> > I haven't noticed it today. Message Actions)
> > Joanie: Orca does nothing in response. I wonder why this event came in.
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:property-change:accessible-name ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:property-change:accessible-name vvvvv
> > 16:27:58 - ... 16:14 I was chatting for a hour or so with riot web in 
> > firefox 74.)
> > Joanie: Orca does nothing in response. I wonder why this event came in.
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:property-change:accessible-name ^^^^^
> >
> > vvvvv CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) vvvvv
> > 16:27:58 - WEB: Current context is: [push button | ], 0
> > 16:27:58 - ORCA: Changing locusOfFocus to [tool bar | Message Actions]
> > 16:27:58 - WEB: Generating speech contents (length: 2)
> > 16:27:58 - ITEM 0: [tool bar | ], start: 0, end: 1, string: ''
> > Joanie: Oops, where'd the name go?
> > 16:27:58 - ZOMBIE: [tool bar | ] is defunct
> > Joanie: Make that where did the toolbar go?
> > 16:27:58 - ITEM 1: [push button | ], start: 0, end: 1, string: ''
> > 16:27:58 - SPEECH OUTPUT: 'tool bar.'
> > 16:27:58 - SPEECH OUTPUT: 'push button.'
> > Joanie: This is where things have clearly gone south....
> > ^^^^^ CONSUME ATSPI_KEY_PRESSED_EVENT: 'Up' (111) ^^^^^
> >
> > Now we get events telling us the toolbar is dead:
> > * property-change:accessible-name for [tool bar | ]
> > * children-changed:remove:system  for [section } ] (2, 0, [tool bar | ])
> > * text-changed:delete:system for [section | ] (64, 1, [OBJ])
> >
> > And then the document itself claims focus because something's got to....
> > 16:27:58 - focus: for [document web | Riot [11]
> > 16:27:58 - state-changed:focused for [document web | Riot [11] (1, 0, 0)
> >
> > Orca soldiers on:
> >
> > vvvvv PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused vvvvv
> > 16:27:58 - OBJECT EVENT: ... (1, 0, 0) role='document web'
> > 16:27:58 - WEB: Caret context is [tool bar | ], 0 (focus: [tool bar | ])
> > 16:27:58 - ZOMBIE: [tool bar | ]'s index is -1
> > 16:27:58 - WEB: Clearing context - obj is null or zombie
> >
> > At this point Orca goes searching for where the caret should be.
> > It does this from the top down. Orca concludes the list (good).
> > But it *seems* to be settling on the first list item (not so good).
> > Not sure why yet.
> > ^^^^^ PROCESS OBJECT EVENT object:state-changed:focused ^^^^^
> >
> > At this point, when you up arrow, you wind up above the list. Which 
> > is what you reported, of course.
> >
> > So.... Maybe I can improve Orca's logic regarding trying to figure 
> > out what you're on -- or should be on -- when the thing you're on 
> > goes poof! Orca already does a lot of work in that regard, but it's 
> > clearly not working here....
> >
> > In the meantime, it would be really nice to be able to reproduce this 
> > myself, locally and reliably, so that I can debug it and try to 
> > improve that logic. So.... Would you, or the Riot developers, have 
> > any idea how I can make this toolbar gain focus and then get 
> > destroyed while one is on/in it?
> >
> > What would be even cooler is if the Riot developers can detect this 
> > condition themselves and maybe put focus or the caret where it 
> > belongs (i.e. in the current chat message associated with the toolbar 
> > which went poof!). Dunno if that's doable. But if it is, Orca should 
> > get an event from Firefox saying what has focus and/or the caret. And 
> > that would be a lot easier -- and way more performant in a super huge 
> > list like a chat log -- than trying to do an accessible tree dive for 
> > the active item.
> >
> > HTH.
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 1/22/20 5:34 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > Very odd, you're not the only one unable to duplicate, seems to be 
> > > unique to me. I tried with both Firefox stable and nightly, 
> > > disabling all addons on nightly. Currently using riot.im/develop.
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's a debug.out of the behavior, with us talking about 
> > > duplicating it no less:
> > >
> > >
> > > https://send.firefox.com/download/91d0d5401798ef23/#MO0kXgEQYOG87-TngtlkcA 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > On 1/22/20 4:24 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > > Hey Nolan.
> > > >
> > > > I'm afraid I cannot reproduce the problem you describe. We use Riot 
> > > > at Igalia btw. I tried with Firefox Nightly and the following 
> > > > versions of Riot:
> > > >
> > > > matrix-react-sdk version: <local>
> > > > riot-web version: 1.5.6
> > > > olm version: 3.1.3
> > > >
> > > > Do you think something in particular might be triggering it, like 
> > > > an incoming message?
> > > >
> > > > --joanie
> > > >
> > > > On 1/22/20 10:25 AM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > > > Working well here, thanks so much!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There is another odd Riot issue that I don't think affects NVDA. 
> > > > > To duplicate:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Start with focus in the message entry area.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Switch to Browse mode and arrow up a few times (yay that I can 
> > > > > now do this! :)
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. After 4-5 up-arrows, focus flies out of the message list and 
> > > > > into the room header.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd expect to be able to arrow up and read previous message 
> > > > > history. I can't always duplicate, but it happens way more often 
> > > > > than not. Using Orca master and Firefox 72.0.1.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/22/20 12:11 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > > > > It looks like the Riot authors were creating a placeholder-like 
> > > > > > experience with actual elements which Orca was treating like real 
> > > > > > entry text and getting confused. This is now working for me. 
> > > > > > Please test and let me know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > --joanie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 1/9/20 9:58 AM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > > > > > Any chance this might get looked into again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > FWIW, Mozilla is abandoning IRC for Matrix, so Riot is about to 
> > > > > > > become an indispensable tool for anyone interacting via chat in 
> > > > > > > the Mozilla ecosystem. They've also been actively working on 
> > > > > > > accessibility and have a good and improving NVDA story. I say 
> > > > > > > that not to pit Orca against NVDA, but rather to note that 
> > > > > > > they're really trying to fix their accessibility issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/15/19 8:53 AM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > > > > > > OK, was mistaken. The failure case is a bit different, but when 
> > > > > > > > I type into the field under Chromium, I can't arrow up past the 
> > > > > > > > previous message. This is under Chromium 78, which I was just 
> > > > > > > > upgraded to.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And yes yes, before you yell at me, I'm interested in this more 
> > > > > > > > as what now appears to be a cross-browser bug with slightly 
> > > > > > > > different behaviors, not as a Chromium issue. :) I just want 
> > > > > > > > this to work somewhere--I don't much care where.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 11/13/19 5:52 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > > > > > > > FWIW, I finally installed Chromium, and this doesn't happen 
> > > > > > > > > with Chromium 77.0.3865.120 Fedora Project and Orca master. So 
> > > > > > > > > seems specific to Firefox.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 11/5/19 3:05 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I can reproduce this. It looks like an Orca bug. I'm still 
> > > > > > > > > > debugging it, but will hopefully have it fixed before too 
> > > > > > > > > > long. I don't think it's a regression though. Or if it is, 
> > > > > > > > > > it's super old. I went back to Orca 3.30 and the problem 
> > > > > > > > > > happens there....
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 11/1/19 11:29 AM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hey folks,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The Riot developers have been pouring lots of effort 
> > > > > > > > > > > recently into making their web-based Matrix client 
> > > > > > > > > > > accessible. But I'm experiencing a pretty significant issue 
> > > > > > > > > > > with their new text entry system for messages that they 
> > > > > > > > > > > can't duplicate under NVDA. I'm wondering if any Orca users 
> > > > > > > > > > > are seeing the same, and if this can be diagnosed as either 
> > > > > > > > > > > a Firefox/Orca issue under Linux, or as something they 
> > > > > > > > > > > aren't doing correctly on their end. To test, you'll need a 
> > > > > > > > > > > Matrix account. Once you have one and are logged in, visit 
> > > > > > > > > > > this instance with accessibility improvements:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://riots.im/adhoc/a11y
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Join a room or chat. You'll probably be automatically 
> > > > > > > > > > > focused into the message input field and put in focus mode. 
> > > > > > > > > > > Once there, enter browse mode and try arrowing up.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Apparently, NVDA handles this use case fine both in the 
> > > > > > > > > > > accessibility build and the development build at 
> > > > > > > > > > > riot.im/develop. Orca, on the other hand, won't let me arrow 
> > > > > > > > > > > up. I hear "Newline," followed by some buttons, and focus 
> > > > > > > > > > > lands back in the message entry field. The only way to 
> > > > > > > > > > > escape this field is to enter browse mode and use b/B/h/some 
> > > > > > > > > > > other quick navigation key, then hope you don't land back in 
> > > > > > > > > > > the mud. Happens under Orca master as of a few minutes ago 
> > > > > > > > > > > and Firefox nightly as of a few days ago, but it's happened 
> > > > > > > > > > > for a bit now so I don't think it's a bleeding-edge 
> > > > > > > > > > > regression. Apologies for not reporting it--been a bit busy 
> > > > > > > > > > > and it hasn't been high enough priority for me.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Is there any actionable feedback I can give the Riot folks 
> > > > > > > > > > > to fix this? They're pretty actively looking for feedback in 
> > > > > > > > > > > the #a11y:matrix.org room, so if you're Matrix-inclined and 
> > > > > > > > > > > want to give it then there is the best place, or I'll 
> > > > > > > > > > > happily relay it otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a bunch.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
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> > > > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > > > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html