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Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

Hence my comment about being out of context.  I was talking about cross platform things.  Also, IDLE is quite 
available on Linux but not generally installed but it does easily run... just not accessible.

Anyway, I think this horse is dead... beaten down with all those non-TAB characters.  *smile*

I do use Linux and orca but honestly it isn't pleasant right now due to the indent madness I suffer in orca.  
Turning on indent announce is painful when I've gotten so cuddly with NVDA's pitch indent system.  Now, that 
is a feature I'd like to see cross over to orca.

        Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 2:53 PM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

Howdy,


I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without attribution .  Mine being the second one is 
out of context as well.

oh sorry, maybe i mixed some stuff from the historys lol.



Please go to python.org, download the latest Windows installer

well, ok windows is a different world :), but this is a linux screenreader list. so i assume you are using 
linux. last time when i installed something on windows i was asked to install an browser bar as well lol. 
maybe the package maintainer of the windows installer package thinks this IDE is a must have.
well but even on windows there might be an accessible texteditor or shell? cmd? powershell? sorry i m not an 
windows user, nor  i use a screen reader. might sound stupid but this is a serious question. i just cannot 
imagine that there is no way to write a textfile and bring it to the interpreter.


Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily emphasized any more outside of the UNIX 
community.

yea right, on windows .net is the dominated thing those days. python, bash, ruby and so on sadly are very 
rare there.

cheers chrys

Am 27.12.20 um 19:37 schrieb Dan Miner via orca-list:

I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without attribution .  Mine being the second one is 
out of context as well.

Generally, I agree with everything you said.  Also our perspectives of "what is accessible" is different 
due to the methods and tools each individual uses.  Using TTS methods on C-like languages can be quite 
problematic but a braille user might find nothing amiss.  I realize my problems generally revolve around 
using TTS as my sole means but braille is difficult to learn and gain strong fluency in later years of 
life.  Plus,, a hugely expensive device for a 40+ cell braille display does not help.

Now, your assertion about GUI not being standard in python.  Please go to python.org, download the latest 
Windows installer and install all components.  You'll find IDLE, a TkInter based IDE and console.  Then, 
follow the tutorial pointers on the thank you page.  This is the inaccessibility I am referring to.

Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily emphasized any more outside of the UNIX 
community.  I see so many posts about blind and VI people wanting to learn python but can't quite figure 
out how to beat that first barrier of python promoting methods of learning which aren't accessible out of 
the box.

So to be clear, my main gripe is with Tk and the general educational model of learning python these days.  
I definitely can do something about Tk which I intend to do so over the coming months.

      Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:24 AM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress 
in accessibility

Howdy,


Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone 
the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try installing 
and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.

well this makes really no sense... python is a programming language not a toolkit.
it like saying my pizza is not compatible to salami. a developer can use GTK for creating a graphical user 
interface, but its not mandatory. the developer can even use wx or QT. it the default widgets of the 
toolkit doesn't implement accessibility its the fault of the toolkit, not of an programming language.

on step more,  pyching looks like its using a custom set of widgets, 
so those are just handmade by the developer itself ( not using a 
standard widget of an toolkit) in this case the developer also need to 
implement the required accessibility interfaces (in whatever language 
it is written)

but all this belongs to _all_ programming languages not only to python


Just
imagine if the standard python GUI tools were accessible across its 
supported platforms (e.g., IDLE).

python doesn't ship any GUI tools. it only ships the python interpreter with some default librarys to do 
stuff like math or time operations, this will give an interactive mode, but this is command line only. if 
python ships any GUI tools then those are packed by your distributor.
its also not mandatory to have a UI to do any Python related work. If i write some scripts for my server i 
use VIM via ssh. so no GUI interaction at all.


cheers chrys

Am 27.12.20 um 09:07 schrieb Jude DaShiell:

Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone 
the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try installing 
and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.



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Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
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