-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of Jude DaShiell
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2020 7:12 PM
To: Dan Miner <dminer84 yahoo com>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in
accessibility
If all of python ever got accessible developers could make websites with it and
replace javascript completely.
Replacing javascript whenever and where it happens with something like python
components would be a benefit to more than the accessibility community too.
Earlier when the States couldn't get the unemployment payments out it was
wrongly claimed Cobol was responsible. It turns out javascript was responsible,
the code hadn't been written well enough and the cobol that was there and
running in the background was running just fine. The cobol code had been
tweaked for years to run as fast as it could and in many cases that meant
properly structured programming. Maybe Cobol needs to develop web
components if Python cannot wipe out javascript.
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020, Dan Miner via orca-list wrote:
Yes, I am interested in KDE being accessible. I had pretty much gave
up Qt ever becoming accessible by version 4. Well, it surprised me when stuff
started happening in the later part of 4.8. I realize this is an orca list but I would
love to see more cross platform GUI frameworks with solid accessibility for
Windows, OSS, and Mac as well mobile platforms even should that happen.
I am trying to learn enough to give a shot at getting Tk from Tcl (and
thus tkintern) to have cross platform accessibility. There is so many quick &
dirty GUIs which is written with that toolkit which will never be accessible. Just
imagine if the standard python GUI tools were accessible across its supported
platforms (e.g., IDLE).
Dan
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: Peter V?gner <pvagner pvagner tk>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress
in accessibility
Howdy Peter,
well hopefully it should not take too long til the menu gets merged. maybe you
can try it out then. i use X11 docker for testing using an developer version of KDE
Neon docker container.
I haven't discovered how to access and use widgets aka plasmoids such as
plasma-pa so far.
well yea, you got the point. you can set a shortcut to focus active
the plasmoids, but those are not assigned by default (but for the
menu). you need to assign the shortcut first. so there is a way to access them.
but you need to access them first lol. some kind of chicken egg issue. i currently
try to write a accessibility like switcher for the desktop, or integrate it into the
krunner search, maybe that's a way to fix the issue. maybe the default plasmoids
for volume, network, Bluetooth and stuff should have an shortcut by default as
well.
overall i see there is some interest by users to have KDE accessible :).
Am 26.12.20 um 21:42 schrieb Peter V?gner:
Hello,
I have finally installed and actually tryed out plasma desktop.
I haven't yet managed to build this new reworked kickoff as it requires
rebuilding more packages besides plasma-desktop but I'm impressed so far.
If we are calling xfce as being enough accessible so it's viable then KDE
plasma is at least on a similar level if not better.
Krunner is awesome, the edit field and the autocomplete is fully accessible
and works great.
Desktop is working fine.
Kwin alt+tab switcher is great and awesome.
I haven't discovered how to access and use widgets aka plasmoids such as
plasma-pa so far.
But still with xfce and pure window managers such as ratpoison we don't
really have this functionality so it's just my curiosity.
Greetings
Peter
D?a 26. 12. 2020 o 16:59 chrys nap?sal(a):
Howdy Peter,
However I can't find the latest accessibility related commits on the kde
github.
The pull request doesnt land yet. it brings more than accessibility. its a
complete rework of kickoff launcher
you can find the request here:
https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/258
Also what about the desktop it-self?
Is dolphin showing the desktop icons?
How much accessible it is?
the workspace is accessible ( i completed this task a couple of month ago
and it is already shipped by latest Plasma).
No dolphin is not drawing the desktop icons here. its done by the plasma
shell itself.
KDE desktop has nice keyboard shortcuts for example alt+f1
to bring up the launcher,
by the way, the launcher "Krunner" is already fully accessible and is even
more than a run dialog for applications. it almost implements a search for
anything like gnome-shell or
gnome-do. i realy enjoy this part very well. until the rework of the main
menu "kickoff" lands, it might be the only accessible way to start applications in
accessible way by
default (i already made the 2 alternatives layouts what are shipped by
default for kickoff accessible some months ago, but this need sighted assistance
to chenge the alternative
layout AFAIK)
IMO KDE offers a lot of power i wanna have from a modern desktop
environment. and fun fact... after a very quick test, it also has a similar or even
smaller memory foodprint than
Mate or Gnome here on my machine.
cheers chrys
Am 26.12.20 um 16:24 schrieb Peter V?gner:
Hello,
I'll be testing KDE hopefully tomorrow.
I haven't yet installed kde apps just bare minimum kde-desktop.
As far as I can see kickoff is part of the kde-desktop package.
However I can't find the latest accessibility related commits on the kde
github.
Or are these changes a few months old and the video you have linked to
is new?
Also what about the desktop it-self?
Is dolphin showing the desktop icons?
How much accessible it is?
KDE desktop has nice keyboard shortcuts for example alt+f1 to bring up
the launcher, alt+f2 for run command, ctrl+f12 to show the desktop and many
more.
Interesting one is ctrl+alt+a show the window demanding action. If this
is working as advertised, it might be a nice accessibility feature by it-self.
See here for Common Keyboard Shortcuts -
https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/applications/fundamentals/kbd.html
Greetings
Peter
26. 12. 2020 12:38:54 Linux A11y <chrys linux-a11y org>:
Howdy,
Well KMail should be accessible (as it uses chromium to show HTML
content, what got very recently a11y support), dolphin KDEs filemanager should
also have
basic accessibility, so i would say the state isn?t here that bad at all.
Kate and konsole still has some issues, but its a WIP.
Making KDE accessible is less a try to have just another desktop
alternative, but its attempt to get its huge developer base understand how
important
accessibility is. This should lead to an overall accessible application
landscape.
I assume its wrong as small community like a11y to try to fix all the
issues by our own, but instead show the developers of the software how a11y
works
and what fits the requirements.
Latest success of this attempt but the launcher is elisa, the KDE
music player what got full accessibility without any attempt to force it.
KDE has IMO an great, friendly, open minded community we should
definitely get on board to make not only plasma but all KDE software or QT
/software
accessibility over all.
So things working out very great, also if it still needs more time and
work to iron out.
Cheers chrys
Am 26.12.2020 um 09:07 schrieb Peter V?gner via orca-list <orca-
list gnome org>:
Hello,
QT accessibility needs more adoption so it can be improved
further.
Most of the GTK apps feel more polished but the trend is that
accessibility on gnome is slowly degrading.
For example yesterday I've tried krusader a KDE file manager for
a spin and I am impressed what I've got.
It's twin panel file manager similar to what Total commander is
on windows it even has some nice features inspired from that such as
integrated ftp / webdav client, tabs, multi rename tool,
synchronize directories and similar. It also includes configurable file actions and
keyboard shortcuts.
Some parts are accessible by using flat review, a few buttons are
not labbelled but other than this it's working amazingly well.
What is so special about it that file tree widget is super super
responsive when comparing it with all the GTK based file managers such as
nautilus or pcman fm. And also incremental search is working
great too.
It is working like a list combined with a tree view. Right arrow key
expands folders and left arrow key jumps up a level. When using it it
feels similar to browsing a popup menu. It's really damn fast and
super responsive.
Multi selection needs a11y improvements.
Also popup menus need a bit of tweaking as it is not clear wich
entries are menu items and which ones are submenus. But still it's very usable
and in my opinions KDE developers need to hear some positive
comments as a reward so they can keep up their great work.
Also remember plasma mobile is powerfull linux mobile
environment and one day we might hopefully see it in action once we have
accessible
touch input support.
Greetings
Peter
26. 12. 2020 2:55:49 Devin Prater <r d t prater gmail com>:
I'd rather wait until the KDE apps, like Kate and KMail, and all
that are made accessible, but yeah I'm very glad we'll have
another option, as long as the KDE folks keep it up. QT still
doesn't feel as great as GTK, but Mumble is a QT app and still works
amazingly well, so maybe it's just general QT developers not
taking advantage of QT accessibility.
On 12/25/20 9:27 AM, Jason White via orca-list wrote:
On 12/25/20 5:17 AM, Peter V?gner wrote:
Once notification area aka system tray / top pannel
whatever alternative there is on the KDE desktop gets
a11y support, it would be about time to move to KDE.
I understand from a recent podcast that the system tray
code in Plasma is being rewritten. I don't know of any
accessibility work on it, however.
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