Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

[Pawel Urbanski <pawel e-urbanski com>]

VS Code or for fokes very much into pure open source Codium works
really well... As a matter of fact - Orca's support is very good out
of the box. Speaking from experience of creating an NVDA add-on to
improve some aspects of ergonomics when coding.
Since NVDA is written in Python, just like Orca I figured out a few
tricks to make coding easier:
** Having a Braille display is in a way a must for more than
occasional script here and there,
** Python's indentation can eat cells on a Braille display very
quickly for they come in packs of 4 space characters per indent,
** If you are not the purist and go for tabs for indentation things
look much better,
** A workaround I am considering now is to extend Louis Braille table
definition to replace a sequence of 4 spaces into a single tab
character,
** It should allow for standard space indents and not eat Braille
display realestate like hungry kid eats candies,
** Will expand the abbriviated tab symbol to 4 spaces when focused.

And then thre is much more than editing, namely: debugging, launching
the thing you are coding or convenient way to compare file
differences...

All the best...

On 27/12/2020, chrys <chrys linux-a11y org> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> > I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without attribution
> > .  Mine being the second one is out of context as well.
> oh sorry, maybe i mixed some stuff from the historys lol.
>
>
> > Please go to python.org, download the latest Windows installer
> well, ok windows is a different world :), but this is a linux
> screenreader list. so i assume you are using linux. last time when i
> installed something on windows i was asked to install an browser bar as
> well lol. maybe the package maintainer of the windows installer package
> thinks this IDE is a must have.
> well but even on windows there might be an accessible texteditor or
> shell? cmd? powershell? sorry i m not an windows user, nor  i use a
> screen reader. might sound stupid but this is a serious question. i just
> cannot imagine that there is no way to write a textfile and bring it to
> the interpreter.
>
> > Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily emphasized
> > any more outside of the UNIX community.
> yea right, on windows .net is the dominated thing those days. python,
> bash, ruby and so on sadly are very rare there.
>
> cheers chrys
>
> Am 27.12.20 um 19:37 schrieb Dan Miner via orca-list:
> > I wish you hadn't mixed quotes from different authors without attribution
> > .  Mine being the second one is out of context as well.
> >
> > Generally, I agree with everything you said.  Also our perspectives of
> > "what is accessible" is different due to the methods and tools each
> > individual uses.  Using TTS methods on C-like languages can be quite
> > problematic but a braille user might find nothing amiss.  I realize my
> > problems generally revolve around using TTS as my sole means but braille
> > is difficult to learn and gain strong fluency in later years of life.
> > Plus,, a hugely expensive device for a 40+ cell braille display does not
> > help.
> >
> > Now, your assertion about GUI not being standard in python.  Please go to
> > python.org, download the latest Windows installer and install all
> > components.  You'll find IDLE, a TkInter based IDE and console.  Then,
> > follow the tutorial pointers on the thank you page.  This is the
> > inaccessibility I am referring to.
> >
> > Yes, python is quite command-line friendly but it isn't heavily emphasized
> > any more outside of the UNIX community.  I see so many posts about blind
> > and VI people wanting to learn python but can't quite figure out how to
> > beat that first barrier of python promoting methods of learning which
> > aren't accessible out of the box.
> >
> > So to be clear, my main gripe is with Tk and the general educational model
> > of learning python these days.  I definitely can do something about Tk
> > which I intend to do so over the coming months.
> >
> >      Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
> > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:24 AM
> > To: orca-list gnome org
> > Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in
> > accessibility
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > > Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone
> > > the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try installing
> > > and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.
> > well this makes really no sense... python is a programming language not a
> > toolkit.
> > it like saying my pizza is not compatible to salami. a developer can use
> > GTK for creating a graphical user interface, but its not mandatory. the
> > developer can even use wx or QT. it the default widgets of the toolkit
> > doesn't implement accessibility its the fault of the toolkit, not of an
> > programming language.
> >
> > on step more,  pyching looks like its using a custom set of widgets, so
> > those are just handmade by the developer itself ( not using a standard
> > widget of an toolkit) in this case the developer also need to implement
> > the required accessibility interfaces (in whatever language it is written)
> >
> > but all this belongs to _all_ programming languages not only to python
> >
> > > Just
> > > imagine if the standard python GUI tools were accessible across its
> > > supported platforms (e.g., IDLE).
> > python doesn't ship any GUI tools. it only ships the python interpreter
> > with some default librarys to do stuff like math or time operations, this
> > will give an interactive mode, but this is command line only. if python
> > ships any GUI tools then those are packed by your distributor.
> > its also not mandatory to have a UI to do any Python related work. If i
> > write some scripts for my server i use VIM via ssh. so no GUI interaction
> > at all.
> >
> >
> > cheers chrys
> >
> > Am 27.12.20 um 09:07 schrieb Jude DaShiell:
> > > Some of what python builds isn't even compatible with gtk let alone
> > > the command line user environment in Linux.  You might try installing
> > > and running pyching and see if you can get that speaking.
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html