Re: [orca-list] Benefits of Linux

[Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>]

Not all linux operating systems run on rolling release policies and even
when that does happen things can and sometimes do get interesting with
regard to update cycles.
Aside from all other problems with Microsoft my reason for not using
Windows any longer is Microsoft is charging subscription fees for a
system that isn't self-healing.  Window-eyes before jaws gobbled it up
did have self-healing working in Version 7.5 and and it helped their
developers find and fix many bugs.
For those who have no clue what I'm writing, a system with self-healing
updates works this way.
An update is sent out to a specific hardware software type and version.
If the update installs and runs correctly the user doesn't even know
self-healing is present because if the software passes those two tests
self-healing doesn't need to activate.  If the update fails or the
software crashes after installation self-healing runs.  When the failure
or crash happens, an error log is created and that error log has
hardware details software version details and the error that happened
along with what version of the software was already on the system if
any.  When the machine reboots, that log gets sent back to the factory.
When the factory gets that log it flags all machines of the same type
with the software on it and that flag blocks that update from being sent
to machines and software of that type until developers can find and fix
the bug(s) that caused the failed install or crash.  When the fix is in
the flag is removed and the software is sent out to that hardware
software combination.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018, Devin Prater wrote:

> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 11:06:10
> From: Devin Prater <r d t prater gmail com>
> To: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>
> Cc: jheim math wisc edu, orca <orca-list gnome org>
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] Benefits of Linux
>
> We don't really know that. I read that people were having problems with the software they were using, and 
> wouldn't be surprised to find that updates were stalled just as badly as Windows updates were in the past.
>
> Devin Prater
> Assistive Technology Instructor certified by World Services for the Blind
> JAWS certified
>
> > On Sep 28, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com> wrote:
> >
> > You can bet Microsoft paid the City of Munich lots of dollars to do that
> > switch. On Fri, 28 Sep 2018, John G Heim via orca-list wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 09:55:49
> > > From: John G Heim via orca-list <orca-list gnome org>
> > > Reply-To: jheim math wisc edu
> > > To: orca <orca-list gnome org>
> > > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Benefits of Linux
> > >
> > > I would never say never. But it's true that right now, linux is written by
> > > nerds for nerds. At one time, there was hope that governments in the EU would
> > > fund development to make linux a main stream desktop operating system. But I
> > > haven't heard a word about that in years.  The only thing I have heard was
> > > that the City of Munich, which had switched to linux, has switched back to
> > > Windows.
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 9/27/18 5:14 PM, Victor Lawrence via orca-list wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately, this is probably why Linux will never be the most popular
> > > > operating system with the average Joe six pack out there. The average Joe
> > > > six pack does not want to be a power user of anything. He wants it to be as
> > > > easy as possible. As long as Linux has the perception of being difficult, I
> > > > don?t think your average idiot computer user will be attracted to Linux. Not
> > > > if he wants it to be as easy as a basic DOS program or something. Linux will
> > > > always be more for those who are willing to work a little harder.
> > > >
> > > > Having said this however, I could be wrong. Lenix has become easier to use.
> > > > It is an operating system that is evolving and if developers want Linux to
> > > > be all the rage with every Joe six pack, they might modify it to make the
> > > > operating system easier for those who really don?t want to work at it. What
> > > > is needed for Linux to become more popular is a fast food version of Linux.
> > > > Linux for dummies. Lenix for lazy people. I hate to say it, but that?s
> > > > probably true.
> > > >
> > > > Victor
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Sep 27, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > First thing that's necessary is to want to become a linux power user.
> > > > > The next thing that's necessary is to get real proficient with bash and
> > > > > check for tutorials and files other than the man page for this one.  The
> > > > > reason that's the case is if you're going to do a real long command
> > > > > string you want to think is this something needed only once or could it
> > > > > be useful for me in the future?  If the latter case is true, put it into
> > > > > a bash script and save it with a descriptive name and a # file: title -
> > > > > description line or lines in the bash script so you remember what it
> > > > > does six months from now.
> > > > > After that, all kinds of command line support is available.  Unlike
> > > > > Windows, you have all kinds of documentation available to you since the
> > > > > largest support network is behind it.
> > > > > If you have a text file you want to get aligned and alignment is such
> > > > > that part of it you don't want aligned,
> > > > > Prefix every line not to be wrapped with a period character then run it
> > > > > through fmt:
> > > > > fmt < input > output.
> > > > > After that's done edit output and remove the period characters from
> > > > > beginnings of lines and nobody will ever know you had those period
> > > > > character prefixes in your output file.
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2018, Victor Lawrence wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 15:18:30
> > > > > > From: Victor Lawrence <victorelawrence gmail com>
> > > > > > To: Jos? Vilmar Est?cio de Souza <vilmar informal com br>
> > > > > > Cc: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>, orca-list <orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Benefits of Linux
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is definitely true.  One just has to have the patience to learn the
> > > > > > command line and understand the benefits of using it to perform certain
> > > > > > tasks.
> > > > > >  Many don?t have the patience to memorize long character strings.  Ubuntu
> > > > > >  Mate is very attractive to many because it has many menus like some
> > > > > >  versions of Windows which many prefer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Victor
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Jos? Vilmar Est?cio de Souza
> > > > > > > <vilmar informal com br> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For me command line is extremely useful when for example I need to
> > > > > > > manipulate large files.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sometimes I need to eliminate duplicate lines or cut parts of lines from
> > > > > > > large files. Linux is equipped with commands that simplify this
> > > > > > > operations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I could use the following sequence to eliminate duplicate lines:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sort large_file.txt |uniq >no_dupl.txt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > sort large_file.txt |uniq -d dupl.txt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The last command will create a file with the lines that are duplicated in
> > > > > > > the file.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Depending on the application command line can be useful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9/26/18 3:54 PM, Victor Lawrence via orca-list wrote:
> > > > > > > > Another benefit of Linux is that you no longer have to use the command
> > > > > > > > line, especially if you are a casual computer user and the command line
> > > > > > > > interface intimidates you.  You can now use Linux with the graphical
> > > > > > > > user interface and many applications have keyboard shortcuts.  Many
> > > > > > > > mistakenly think you have no choice but to use the command line and this
> > > > > > > > is a misconception.
> > > > > > > >  I never use the command line and I do just fine with the graphical
> > > > > > > >  user interface.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Victor
> > > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2018, at 6:26 AM, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:jdashiel panix com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) Largest support service on the planet, nothing any proprietary
> > > > > > > > > vendor
> > > > > > > > > can possibly match let alone exceed.
> > > > > > > > > 2) Much more operating stability than Windows,
> > > > > > > > > 3) Command line use provides power access to the systems,
> > > > > > > > > 4) Bare metal installs are way more possible than windows for screen
> > > > > > > > > reader users which means,
> > > > > > > > > 5) user/installer of system survives a malware crash far better than
> > > > > > > > > others,
> > > > > > > > > 6) Apple has made bare bones install for screen reader users possible
> > > > > > > > > since 2006 because OSX is a cousin of Darwin which is a cousin to
> > > > > > > > > Linux.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2018, Milton wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 09:10:54
> > > > > > > > > > From: Milton <milton duurzaamdigitaal org>
> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:milton duurzaamdigitaal org>
> > > > > > > > > > To: Jeanette C. <julien mail upb de> <mailto:julien mail upb de>, Andy
> > > > > > > > > > Borka <sonfire11 gmail com> <mailto:sonfire11 gmail com>
> > > > > > > > > > Cc: orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Benefits of Linux
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is great to have a tool which in this case is the computer,
> > > > > > > > > > operating
> > > > > > > > > > system and applications, that is community-driven that comes with far
> > > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > values than tools based on primair financial interest. For reasons of
> > > > > > > > > > digital
> > > > > > > > > > security, sustainibility and the possibility to have directly contact
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > developers make it awesome to own such tool. Further more this tool
> > > > > > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > > freedom and preventing for constantly returning costs.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Milton
> > > > > > > > > > Op 26-09-18 om 08:12 schreef Jeanette C. via orca-list:
> > > > > > > > > > > Sep 26 2018, Andy Borka via orca-list has written:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am bias in this subject from a technical point of view. Someone
> > > > > > > > > > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > > > > what the benefits of using Linux with orca is over say Windows and
> > > > > > > > > > > > OSX.
> > > > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Andy,
> > > > > > > > > > > as you mentioned most - if not all - software is free, i.e. doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > cost
> > > > > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > Depending on your field of work, there will be - at least - one kind
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > helpful online community. Most major applications even have their own
> > > > > > > > > > > mailinglists or other forms of online group.
> > > > > > > > > > > Mostly it is easy to contact development teams directly and with
> > > > > > > > > > > courtesey and reason, you will find open ears, help and - if possible
> > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > willingness to listen to the user-base.
> > > > > > > > > > > In many fields one can find good documentation. In some cases so much
> > > > > > > > > > > that it would need guidance to choose the best one to start with.
> > > > > > > > > > > With initiative the Linux user experience is highly customiseable.
> > > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > extends from the look and feel of the desktop environment to the
> > > > > > > > > > > choice
> > > > > > > > > > > of tools. In some areas there are very particular tools allowing to
> > > > > > > > > > > support a lot of different workflows and points of view.
> > > > > > > > > > > As long as there are enough engaged users of an application, there's
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > built-in guarantee that this application will be updated and at least
> > > > > > > > > > > be maintained to work on modern systems.
> > > > > > > > > > > If a user is willing and by any means capable, Linux can be a very
> > > > > > > > > > > educational experience, leading a user to understand the system and
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > time (fully) maintain it and/or build once own highly specific work
> > > > > > > > > > > environment.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There is the other side as well. Please note that I am not belittling
> > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > criticing anyone. Linux does still appear to have a steeper learning
> > > > > > > > > > > curve. I am not well-acquainted with windows myself, but with mac.
> > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > the mac screenreader works, it is very consistent, easy to get and
> > > > > > > > > > > powerful. Especially in a few areas of work (i.e. professional music
> > > > > > > > > > > production) Linux cannot (yet) compete. To be fair: to be really
> > > > > > > > > > > competitive with the other systems, does cost a pretty penny. The
> > > > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > systems appear to require less initiative on the user's side to setup
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > reasonable working environment and familiarise with it to a degree
> > > > > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > > everyday work is possible.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As has been seen though, once a certain software becomes accessible,
> > > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean that it will stay accessible. I have never encountered
> > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > problem with opensource packages. This doesn't mean it doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > happen,
> > > > > > > > > > > but would be a rare occasion. Quite on the contrary, I have seen
> > > > > > > > > > > quite a
> > > > > > > > > > > few packages been made accessible, sometimes for as little as one
> > > > > > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > > > or simply as a general movement of inclusion and openness.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > HTH.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jeanette
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> > > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > > <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> > > > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> > > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
> > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > > > <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> > > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
> > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > > <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
> > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> >
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

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