Re: [orca-list] ALSA Card Ordering [Was: I hate pulse]

[Fernando Botelho <Fernando Botelho F123 org>]

Outstanding!


Thanks for sharing!


Fernando



On 11/21/2017 03:45 PM, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Sure, Fernando! Here's my annotated current list:
>
> Note that these are on a tower system at my office desk. All outputs are
> routed into a Mackie 1202 audio mixer that physically sites on a shelf
> right above my keyboard--where sighted folks would typically put a video
> monitor. I have a pair of old Roland monitors on a level with my ears on
> this same shelf. Behind me on the wall are a pair of old JBL Ion powered
> speakers. The Mackie allows me to play output to either pair (or both),
> or to a headset (see below).
>
>
> $aplay -l |grep card
>
> card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC892 Analog [ALC892 Analog]
> card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 1: ALC892 Digital [ALC892 Digital]
> card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
> card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 7: HDMI 1 [HDMI 1]
> Comment: This one is the builtin on the motherboard. It's for Speakup with espeakup TTS. It doesn't share
> well, but I wouldn't particularly want it to share on this machine, as
> that easily means getting non screen reader output mixed with my screen
> reader's TTS. I don't use the hdmi, though I'm thinking of possibly
> attaching an Amazon Firestick there.
>
> card 1: Device [C-Media USB Audio Device], device 0: USB Audio [USB
> Audio]
> Comment: This one is a $15 USB device I picked up years ago. It's for Orca over Speech-Dispatcher also using
> espeak, currently via libao. On my laptop I have Speakup and Orca
> talking through the same device, but that hasn't worked for me on this
> tower system--not for the many years I ran Fedora, or now under Arch.
>
> card 2: Headset [Sennheiser USB Headset], device 0: USB Audio [USB
> Audio]
> Comment:This is a gamer headset I picked up some 6-7 years ago vor
> around $160. It lives right by the Mackie where I can easily grab it and
> put it on my head. It's for SIP voip telephone calls over either
> freeswitch (currently broken) or linphonec (currently working). This
> device is very important to my business life as it allows me to talk on
> the phone but still have Speakup and/or Orca in my ears without the
> screen reader bleeding into the phone call. Literally it's my business
> telephone with a defined extension on my data center hosted Asterisk
> PBX. It's microphone input is routed directly into the Sennheiser USB
> dongle. Meanwhile, output from the USB dongle gets a pair of inputs on
> the Mackie, while the headset's audio input cable is attached to the
> headphone jack on the Mackie.
>
> card 3: AV710 [Chaintech AV-710], device 0: ICE1724 [ICE1724]
> card 3: AV710 [Chaintech AV-710], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724
> IEC958]
> card 3: AV710 [Chaintech AV-710], device 2: ICE1724 Surrounds [ICE1724
> Surround PCM]
> Comment: This is a PCI card I picked up years ago for $25. I think it's
> one of my best buys ever, as the chipset is top notch quality audio for
> its time. It's my goto device anytime I simply need to play some audio.
>
> card 4: DSP [Hammerfall DSP], device 0: RME Hammerfall DSP + Multiface
> [RME Hammerfall DSP + Multiface]
> Comment: This is the original RME Hammerfalls DAC unit which set me back
> some $1,500 some 15 years ago. It's the device I use for editing audio
> wether with sox or ecasound, or my old favorite wedit. It's also my midi
> interface as I have an old 61-lkey keyboard controller behind my 104
> typing keyboard for quick access to playing a few musical notes. It also
> interfaces my Marantz casette deck--so many old cassettes still to rip!
> And, it interfaces my Sony DAT deck. I've had various music making units
> interfaced, currently a Roland XV5050, hopefully to be soon swapped out
> for something that will keep audio in the digital domain. Probably this
> device will get replaced someday in the future, as it tops out at 96Khz
> sampling.
>
> For a sample of what I do with this card, which is sometimes routed via
> jackd, take a look at the sample 1 minute "sound montage" posted at:
>
> https://WeThePeeple.org
>
> Full disclosure here. What you hear at this link was story-boarded using
> this device. All the sound samples were edited and basically laid out,
> except the piano and the snare drum, using this device. In other words, I figured out my composition using 
> this card. Final mixing, however, was done on
> a Mac in a studio I work with in College Park. Basically, I took the
> pieces of sound to their studio location on a USB stick with a printout of what I
> wanted at what time offset and pan location for final assembly, as it
> were.
>
> This "sound montage" introduces a song I, and the other musicians I
> worked with, expect to release soon, as soon as all the copyright
> licenses are arranged properly.
>
> I should add that I'm the keyboard gal on this song. I got files from
> the studio reflecting recently recorded piano, bass drums, and then
> vocals. There were several iterations. Against these i picked out what I
> wanted to add using the Roland XV5050, practiced my parts until I was
> ready to take my XV5050 to that studio and lay my own tracks that were
> then considered and edited into the final mix we'll be releasing.
>
> The montage I've published is based almost entirely on Creative Commons
> licensed, so no copyright. The sole exception is the Moslem Meuzin,
> where I've been unable to find actual ownership info, so am relying on
> U.S. Fair Use as my defense, should I be challenged. But, now I digress
> from explaining how I use my audio devices!
>
> hth
>
> Janina
>
> Fernando Botelho writes:
> > Wow, now you just made me and a bunch of others very curious about what
> > anyone would do with 4 or 5 sound cards on a computer! :)
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Fernando
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/21/2017 02:21 PM, Janina Sajka via orca-list wrote:
> > > Thanks, Peter. I will play around with your suggestions sometime soon.
> > > For now I just want to acknowledge your email and thank you for taking
> > > the time to provide concrete suggestions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Part of the problem with trying out new things on a machine with 4-5
> > > audio cards, is that there's a reason for putting so many cards on one
> > > system in the first place. They're doing very specific things for me,
> > > and it's a bit hard to find the time to put all that at risk while
> > > trying out something new. But, I will get there sometime before year's
> > > end, and I will happily rely on your good advice when I do that.
> > >
> > > Thanks again. To be continued!
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Janina
> > >
> > > Peter Vágner writes:
> > > > Hello Janina,
> > > >
> > > > By default pulseaudio is configured through its main configuration file at
> > > > /etc/pulse/default.pa to dynamically load all the modules corresponding
> > > > with your hardware taking over all the available sound devices.
> > > > If you only would like to configure it to load concrete driver modules for
> > > > a few devices you would like it to hijack you can create your user specific
> > > > ~/.config/pulse/default.pa commenting out parts which are controlling the
> > > > autodetection and manually loading those driver modules and those feature
> > > > specific modules you do care about.
> > > > The file /etc/pulse/default.pa contains usefull examples with some comments
> > > > alongside them so I think you will realize how the puzzle will stick
> > > > together when you combine it with the knowledge on alsa device ordering you
> > > > have explained to us a few months ago.
> > > > For example you might like to comment out this...
> > > > ### Automatically load driver modules depending on the hardware available
> > > > .ifexists module-udev-detect.so
> > > > load-module module-udev-detect
> > > > .else
> > > > ### Use the static hardware detection module (for systems that lack udev
> > > > support)
> > > > load-module module-detect
> > > > .endif
> > > > and you might like to uncomment and modify this instead
> > > > ### Load audio drivers statically
> > > > ### (it's probably better to not load these drivers manually, but instead
> > > > ### use module-udev-detect -- see below -- for doing this automatically)
> > > > #load-module module-alsa-sink
> > > > #load-module module-alsa-source device=hw:1,0
> > > > And depending on what you are trying to do you may also like to optionally
> > > > uncomment
> > > > #load-module module-null-sink
> > > > #load-module module-pipe-sink
> > > >
> > > > By learning this and making pulse work for you, combining it with its
> > > > ability to be controlled via pacmd cli utility pulseaudio might become your
> > > > new Mackie if you will have problems finding a device featuring classic
> > > > radio style controls and knobs.
> > > > I am occassionally thinking about your sound setup as you have described it
> > > > a few months ago and this is definatelly one of the directions you should
> > > > try exploring.
> > > > I have always wanted to point it out gently so you might like to consider
> > > > something like this however I was not sure you will like it so depending on
> > > > my current mood I was putting it aside all the time.
> > > > Now you have shown your interest in this direction so I've changed my mind
> > > > a bit.
> > > > I don't have much more experiences with setting up a sound system, however
> > > > I do like pulseaudio so if you are happy to talk with someone else who is
> > > > thinking from the other end to yours please just ask. I think we may have
> > > > fun trying out new ways on how to make it work.
> > > >
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2017-11-15 16:03 GMT+01:00 Janina Sajka via orca-list <orca-list gnome org>:
> > > >
> > > > > Chrys:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've kept your message from August around because I've found it useful.
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Quick question: Do you know of a cli way of telling pulse to ignore
> > > > > certain cards and use certain others instead? For instance, how can I tell
> > > > > pulse to
> > > > > limit itself to cards 2 and 3, and leave 0, 1 and 4 alone?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina
> > > > >
> > > > > chrys writes:
> > > > > > Howdy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you can get all your soundcards with
> > > > > > pactl list short sinks
> > > > > > or more detailed with:
> > > > > > pacmd list-sinks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to set a new default device use:
> > > > > > pacmd set-default-sink <Index>
> > > > > > the index is the number on the beginning of the line of pactl list short
> > > > > > sinks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if the wrong soundcard is set you can run those commans via SSH.
> > > > > > it remembers the default but if you dont trust and want to be sure that a
> > > > > > special device is set you can place it as start script
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i also wrote a small script and bound it to an bash and gnome shortcut to
> > > > > > cycle between all soundcards (maybe its useful for you or others)
> > > > > > ---- script start ------
> > > > > > #!/bin/bash
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sinks=(`pacmd list-sinks | sed -n -e
> > > > > > 's/\**[[:space:]]index:[[:space:]]\([[:digit:]]\)/\1/p'`)
> > > > > > sinks_count=${#sinks[@]}
> > > > > > active_sink_index=`pacmd list-sinks | sed -n -e
> > > > > > 's/\*[[:space:]]index:[[:space:]]\([[:digit:]]\)/\1/p'`
> > > > > > newSink=${sinks[0]}
> > > > > > ord=0
> > > > > >
> > > > > > while [ $ord -lt $sinks_count ];
> > > > > > do
> > > > > >       echo ${sinks[$ord]}
> > > > > >       if [ ${sinks[$ord]} -gt $active_sink_index ] ; then
> > > > > >           newSink=${sinks[$ord]}
> > > > > >           break
> > > > > >       fi
> > > > > >       let ord++
> > > > > > done
> > > > > >
> > > > > > # move current running streams to the new device
> > > > > > pactl list short sink-inputs|while read stream; do
> > > > > >       streamId=$(echo $stream|cut '-d ' -f1)
> > > > > >       echo "moving stream $streamId"
> > > > > >       pactl move-sink-input "$streamId" "$newSink"
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > pacmd set-default-sink "$newSink"
> > > > > > --- script end----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 20.08.2017 um 18:01 schrieb John G. Heim:
> > > > > > > Well, it's kind of hard to reconfigure pulse when you have no sound.
> > > > > > > Again, at least 3 times in the past year or 2, I've lost sound, had to
> > > > > > > use ssh to get into my computer, and remove the ~/.config/pulse/
> > > > > folder.
> > > > > > > I didn't make up the solution, I found it on this list. So I am not the
> > > > > > > only one. It's a problem. Lets not act like it's not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know, I speculated pulse's problems were due to it not being
> > > > > > > possible to guarantee the order in which hardware devices are
> > > > > > > discovered. Maybe that's wrong but it's not really to the point.
> > > > > > > Somebody says pulse has a prioritizing algorithm which seems reasonable
> > > > > > > to me. But that algorithm probably at least somewhat depends on the
> > > > > > > order in which ards are discovered. I don't know how it could be
> > > > > > > otherwise and there certainly seems to be amount of randomness in it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 08/19/2017 01:39 PM, chrys wrote:
> > > > > > > > Howdy,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sorry but that is just bullshit lol. Also PA does not choose an
> > > > > > > > random sound card. it uses that one that you defined as default.
> > > > > > > > You also can set output devices and prioritys by scripting or
> > > > > > > > configuration like in alsa... so that argument is just wrong.
> > > > > > > >    cheers chrys
> > > > > > > > Am 19.08.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Janina Sajka via orca-list:
> > > > > > > > > Micha:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For me this is yet another reason to stay away from pulse. The last
> > > > > > > > > thing I need with 5 sound cards is having some bot deciding which
> > > > > ones
> > > > > > > > > should do what, and in what order. I have no use for machines that
> > > > > > > > > ignore my specified configurations to make up their own.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In other words, this is just another way for things to break.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Janina
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Michał Zegan writes:
> > > > > > > > > > actually from what i know, pulseaudio does not go by ordering,
> > > > > but it
> > > > > > > > > > prioritizes cards based on type like internal card vs usb card vs
> > > > > > > > > > whatever... etc
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > W dniu 19.08.2017 o 19:56, Janina Sajka via orca-list pisze:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi, John:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I noted one comment in your post re pulseaudio that I want to
> > > > > respond
> > > > > > > > > > > to.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > John G Heim writes:
> > > > > > > > > > > > ... you can never guarantee that hardware
> > > > > > > > > > > > devices are discovered in the same order. ...
> > > > > > > > > > > No, but you can control the card order they're assigned, e.g.
> > > > > via
> > > > > > > > > > > /etc/modprobe.d/alsa.conf using vid= and pid= params for
> > > > > multiple USB
> > > > > > > > > > > sound cards.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The best on line summary of available approaches I've
> > > > > > > > > > > found to date is
> > > > > > > > > > > at:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > http://alsa.opensrc.org/MultipleCards
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm currently working through the above as I have a nagging
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > > > > > every time I'm forced to reboot, e.g. after installing a new
> > > > > Linux
> > > > > > > > > > > kernel.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My problem is that my hda device isn't always
> > > > > > > > > > > discovered. This morning I
> > > > > > > > > > > ran a system update and had to reboot some 30 times
> > > > > > > > > > > before my Intel-810
> > > > > > > > > > > hda device was discovered. I've looked in the logs. The
> > > > > > > > > > > problem is the
> > > > > > > > > > > system is literally not seeing the device on most boots, yet
> > > > > once
> > > > > > > > > > > loaded, it runs perfectly for days and weeks.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > According to the above referenced article, there are
> > > > > > > > > > > approaches I might
> > > > > > > > > > > try to resolve my problem without rebooting. And, it seems my
> > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > > > ordering config code could be updated, too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, I offer my current code because it does
> > > > > > > > > > > work to reliably
> > > > > > > > > > > order my 5 sound devices. The always come up in the
> > > > > > > > > > > order defined below.
> > > > > > > > > > > My only issue is whether, or not card 0 has been found, else
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > remaining devices are shifted by 1--which doesn't help
> > > > > > > > > > > my situation as I
> > > > > > > > > > > need the headset to match my configured FreeSwitch
> > > > > > > > > > > config, just as one
> > > > > > > > > > > example.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <begin config file code>
> > > > > > > > > > > alias snd-card-0 snd-hd-intel
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-card-0 index=0
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-hda-intel id=PCH index=0
> > > > > > > > > > > alias snd-card-1 headset
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-card-1 index=1
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-usb-audio index=1 vid=0x1395 pid=0x3556
> > > > > > > > > > > alias snd-card-2 cmedia
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-card-2 index=2
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-usb-audio index=2 vid=0x0d8c pid=0x000c
> > > > > > > > > > > alias snd-card-3 ice
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-card-3 index=3
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-ice1724 index=3
> > > > > > > > > > > alias snd-card-4 hdsp
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-card-4 index=4
> > > > > > > > > > > options snd-hdsp index=4
> > > > > > > > > > > <end config file code>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/
> > > > > gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > > > >                           sip:janina asterisk rednote net
> > > > >                   Email:  janina rednote net
> > > > >
> > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
> > > > >
> > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/
> > > > > gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org