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Re: [orca-list] linux full time

The CLI isn't dead by any means, and it's not just a few folks like us
on the fringes using the CLI.

Note, in case you're not yet aware of it, that there's a great screen
reader for Linux CLI use called Speakup. And, if you have a braille
device, you'll want to get yourself going with brltty. There's also
emacspeak which is -- how shall I say -- it's own ecosystem? Not CLI
exactly, not gui, though very much object oriented.

Apple engineers use their CLI. Windows developers do, too. In fact, the
next release of Windows is coming with a Ubuntu bash built in -- I kid
you not:

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-how-to-add-ubuntu-bash-to-the-start-menu/

So, indeed one should at least take the Linux originals for a spin. You
may prefer to stay entirely or mostly in the GUI, or you may drift into
a mix of both like many other folks out there.

Janina

Alex Midence writes:

OK, since I have clearly unwittingly ruffled feathers with last decade comment, I want to explain what I 
meant. It simply means what it says. It is an interface common 10 years ago. If you grew up during that 
time, you are used to it. If you grew up during this decade, chances are, you will find cumbersome.  Also, 
if you are coming from the Newer forms of windows, interfaces such as unity and Gnome will be closer to 
what you're used to.  Me, I grew up during the late 80s and early 90s.   That means I find commandline 
quite comfortable. Gives me warm fuzzies.  Makes me nostalgic for the days of shell accounts and BBSs. Some 
of you may never have even heard of such things. All the rage back then until people started hearing about 
this thing called the Internet. Good old CLI!   That would be the interface of three decades ago! 

Best in gavel-free regards,
Alex M

Sent from my iPhone


On May 6, 2016, at 8:01 PM, kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com> wrote:

hi
I second this. Burt is right. Linux is about choice. There is no right
or wrong way to do things. My way might be just right for you or it
might be terrible and inefficient, it all depends on a number of things,
not the least of which is how you grew up using computers. I grew up
back when win 2k was new, so mate's approach makes much more sense to me
but I can and have used gnome with little problems. I'd like to applaud
whoever's idea it was to finally add "signal strength" and "secure" info
to network manager's applet, this has been something that only unity
could do until very recently. Extremely handy. Last decade's interface
is just judgemental. By that logic, anyone who's using windows 7 or xp
is to be castigated for not "getting with the program" and "using what
everyone else uses." Some people use older versions of windows for
perfectly valid reasons, just like people like mate or standalone window
managers like ratpoison and fluxbox. People have different tastes for a
reason and it's only enormous pressure by companies that get people to
all use the same things. Windows and mac don't have as broad a choice of
desktops. Sometimes they have programs that linux does not, but the
interface you get is what you're stuck with. You can customize it, to a
point, but you can't download a completely different desktop and use it,
and even if you could, it likely wouldn't be accessible.
Thanks
Kendell Clark


Burt Henry wrote:

Although the mate experience is not as good as I have had it is still 
usable on latest vinux, and I mentioned it specifically because one can 
choose between gnome, mate and unity. 
Having them all on the same O
S/hardware gives one as level a playing field as could be wished for. 
As Alex says, there are reasons people like one approach much more than 
another. 
I personally have little trouble adapting to either search driven or menu 
drive environments, and what ever I am going to use for more than an hour 
or two will get customized so that I am not using either the menus or 
search field for the aps where I spend 90% of my time. 
All modern linux desktops make it pretty esy to extremely easy to 
configure keyboard shoertcuts, so I take advantage of this.
I use almost all the same shortcuts no matter which distro/desktop I am 
using. 
I remember Alex saying he does not want to spend the time to set up the 
shortcuts, and typing in a few letters to launch programs works for him. 
Spending a few minutes to set up hotkeys saves me lots of time ofver 
months and years of use, so I can't not work that way. 
The point of rehashing this is that Linux gives one a wide range of ways 
of doing most things, both on the interface level, i.e. how we choose to 
interact with our computers and on how things are actually done  "under 
the hood". 
While some distros do try and please most folks, sometimes cutting corners 
with configurability in doing so, others let the user control almost any 
detail of the system one can think of. 
I personally like the middle ground, i.e. give me the option to customize 
as much as possible, but when defaults really are likely to please the 
vast majority of folks, go on  and provide them. 
If I have to single out one thing wrong with gnome it is the lack of 
customization . It is not bad perhaps by windows or apple standards, but 
is not what itcould be, nor what it was.
I will take  a bit of issue with the tone of  
"last decade's interface", as it implies that something that was not 
developed this year is somehow suspect or infirior.  By that logic we 
should all be using voice commands or at least touch screens, and I 
certainly would not want to be "stuck" with just those.
I am not knowcking the index and search approach, but just a reminder, for 
machines with limited processor speed and memory you are using a lot of 
system resources that could be better spent on actual completion of 
productive work. 
Gnome is quite efficient these days however, and fair to "average" 
hhardware can run it pretty well in most cases. 
Unity is a bit more resource hungry, but many people like it as it has 
something akin to a startmenu in the launcher, and I find some of the 
indicators quite nice. 
Gnome's top panel is sparce by comparison, but quite nice when one wants 
to quickly adjust sound volume, screen brightness or switch network 
connections. 
Mate needs a bit of customization from how it comes for best 
accessibility, but it's menus are rather well designed, certainly much 
more efficient than windows in my opinion, i.e. they are indeed almost the 
same as has been used for a decade back from when gnome 2.x was new. Mate 
has been and is being reworked beneath the interface however, and the fact 
that it'smenus have been around so long says something, many people like 
them the way they are!
There is no right or wrong answer as to what is the best graphical 
desktop, and again I  speakup for the commandline options which round out 
modern Linux, again with something that has been around for quite some 
time, talking 3 decades more or less. You can also define some keyboard 
short cuts that work on the commandline, and I use some of these daily. I 
prefer a commandline email client for most of my emailing, and my basic 
research is done in textbased browsers, but thanks to great work by Jonaie 
orca now works with firefox as well as NVDA works with it in windows.
I should never comment in this type of conversation as there is just too 
much to say. The good part of it is that most of what I can think of to 
say is good.
Enjoy what ever  you choose, and try a number of things instead of trying 
to go on what I or someone else writes. 
I am using a graphical environment that is very different from what all 
but a handfull of folks reading this use, or have even tried for that 
matter. 






_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
                        sip:janina asterisk rednote net
                Email:  janina rednote net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
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