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Re: [orca-list] Ot:Value of a degree ( does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?)

Opinions aside, study after study shows that getting a college degree, especially in a STEM field, significantly increases your income. Here is a quote from an article in US News,"Those with bachelor's degrees, no matter the field, earn vastly more than counterparts with some college." See the link below for the full article. The article specifically says this is especially true for STEM fields. Nobody said you absolutely have to have a degree. But you are putting yourself at a significant disadvantage if you don't. That is just a fact. 

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/08/05/how-higher-education-affects-lifetime-salary

school diploma ($1.30 million lifetime), indicating

On 03/09/2016 07:35 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
I'm not against college degrees. I don't think they're meaningless. If you can get one, you certainly should. I do, however, think they are given more than their share of importance when compared to relevant experience, aptitude and skill. I also think there is value in certifications. PMP, Six Sigma, Lean, PHR, SPHR, CPLP, CFP, CHFC, CLU, CPC, Series 6, Series 63, CFA, CEBS ... They all carry considerable weight in the field for which they are accredited. College is wonderful and, in some fields, a degree is certainly indespensible. However, there are times when one simply is not necessary to land a decently paying job. One would certainly help, I'm sure but you can sometimes get along without one. This gives hope to many people whose family, financial or other life situation prevents them from going to college but does not preclude obtaining a certification. If you have the time, money and life-style, by all means, go to college. If you don't, there are alternatives which some employers will accept. That is all I'm saying from my perspective as someone who has recruited, interviewed and been part of a hiring committee. 

Alex M


On 03/09/2016 05:00 PM, John Heim wrote:
I knew this was going to happen. Every time I talk about the value of a BS degree, I get replies from people who say they don't care about a degree. But that is simply not typical in this industry. Look at the ads yourself. Practically every one of them says the job requires a BS or equivalent experience. If you think the fact that the ads say "equivalent experience" proves your point, you are wrong. The problem is getting that experience in the first place. It's simply a fact that a BS degree is getting to be similar to a high school diploma was 40 years ago. You are putting yourself at a significant competitive disadvantage if you don't have that degree. The last thing a blind person needs is to put himself at a disadvantage. You are already at a disadvantage.
As President of the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists, I see this problem first hand nearly every day. Anyone can call himself a linux systems administrator. The guy who works in the coffee shop and fiddles with computers in his basement can call himself a linux systems admin. Why would a company hire you instead of that guy? Why would you put yourself in a position to be competing for a job interview against everybody who ever helped their grandmother get on line? One way to put yourself in a different class of applicants is to get that degree.
I admit I haven't done a scientific study but hardly a week goes by where I don't hear from a blind person who wants to break into systems administration. While I know that there are success stories from people who never got a degree, there are a heck of a lot of people out there struggling. You are already blind, don't give them a second reason to put your resume in the discard pile. 

On 03/09/2016 04:15 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
I'll preface what I write by saying I have hired people before and will probably be in a position to do it again in future. Now then, I totally get needing to finish High School. It's the very basic proof of basic education. I'm much more flexible about college because I've hired college graduates who could not perform at the same level as someone who did a few years of college but had experience in the job I was hiring for. Honestly, I can see the logic of hiring someone with an Associates of Applied Sciences more than a Bachelor's. The job-specific training received under an associates is much more focused without all the superfluous stuff that has no bearing on what you are going to do. I do give weight to certifications provided they are from certain institutions known for their rigorous testing. As for the discipline argument, I've had people come through my class who finished high school, didn't finish college but were diligent, hardworking and dedicated. In that same class, I had someone who did finish college and was one of the biggest slackers it has ever been my displeasure to have in my program. He was certainly smart enough, no question, but his work ethic was deplorable. Probably partied all through college and crammed for all his tests. That, or he was one of those people who never needed to study for their tests and still managed to get good grades. Someone like that gets a rude awakening when he is in the real world.
This sort of thing has happened to me enough times for me to give much less credence to that degree as an all-around indicator of competence or a good disciplined employee than say, a pre-employment assessment measuring reading comprehension, critical thinking, problem solving and financial math skills. This is especially true when that degree was in something totally unrelated to what the job is about. I'm in customer-facing financial services. Why would I hire someone with a bachelor's in Math, history or engineering over someone who has done this kind of job before even if they didn't finish their degree? 

Sorry about the rant.

Alex M



-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of John Heim 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 3:21 PM
To: orca
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ot: does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?
Yes, many jobs at a high school, college, or university legally require you to have a degree. No matter how much they might have liked a candidate for my job, for example, they couldn't have hired him without a BS degree. Even in the private sector, not having a degree is a huge drawback at least in a place like Madison where even the guy that serves you coffee has a BS degree. If you were hiring, what would you think of someone who didn't finish high school? I am extremely sympathetic to that kind of thing. Believe me, I understand how life can run you down. But if I was running a company, I'd want people who had the discipline to at least finish high school. These days, that same kind of thinking applies to college.
Most ads say that the job requires a BS degree or equivalent experience. Of course, the problem would be getting the equivalent experience without the degree. I talked about how around here, jobs for linux systems admins go unfilled but those are not entry level positions. My department has jobs that require a BS degree and those that don't. The last time we had a job that required a degree, we got 5 applications. The last time we had a job that didn't require a degree, we got more than 30.
Personally, I don't know why anyone would not want to go to college. You don't have to go to Harvard. Just go to your state university. You will have tons of fun, learn a lot, and set yourself up for a great career. 
Well, major in something useful, like Comp Sci.


On 03/09/2016 12:04 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
Bummer. So, you could have someone who is perfectly knowledgeable, perfectly competent but who won't get hired because he or she doesn't have a BS degree. Wow. Maybe the lpi Certification might make the difference for somebody like that then. 

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of John
Heim
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 11:40 AM
To: orca
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ot: does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?
Well, I don't know anything about certifications but I work as the linux admin for the Math Department at the University Of Wisconsin. Managing the mail, print, database, and web servers isn't even that big a part of my job. I do all that but I also manage the research cluster for the faculty. We have some machines with 32 to 40 cores that are tied into everybody's office computer so they can use their office machine as a node on the cluster. It's all linux. As you may know, almost all high performance computing is done on linux computers. Anyway, my point is that I almost never have accessibility problems. For a career for a blind person, I think linux systems admin is about as level a playing surface as you are going to find. I am not sure what the demand is for linux systems admins in other parts of the world but around here it's really high. Jobs go unfilled for years because of the lack of qualified candidates. This is a university town and that is what accounts for the demand. The university creates it's share of jobs but many are also created by businesses spun off of the university. All the jobs around here, even most of those in the private sector, require a BS degree or better. 

On 03/08/2016 02:27 PM, austinAustin quesada wrote:

Hi. I figured i would ask this here, as i trust this community to
give me some honest answers. So, recently, i have been looking in to
being certifyed from the Linux foundation, for employment purposes.
From what i gather, there is quite a demand for Linux systems admins, 
and the pay is quite good here in the US. I'm wondering though if
this type of job would be practical using speakup and or orca to
manage a stable server environment, assuming of course that i
actually land the job? Any thoughts on the matter would be much
appreciated. Also feel free to share experiences and the like. Thanks. 
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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org







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