Re: [orca-list] Mate: Annuncing editable text field on the desktop

[Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>]

Hey Raphaël.

As indicated in my other email to the list, I am hopefully hacking
around the event spew now -- at least for Gtk+ 3. I'll look into the
situation with Gtk+ 2 later.

--joanie

On 12/13/2016 10:01 AM, Raphaël POITEVIN wrote:
> Hi Joanie,
>
> About desktop case, I totally agree with you. Equal accessibility is
> fair. In Caja window, as Colomban says, it could be something which
> could be changed directly in Caja. The text field could be disabled by
> adding an option.
>
> Raphaël
>
> On 12/13/2016 01:32 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hi Raphaël.
> >
> > I just installed MATE in Fedora 25 and did some tests without Orca
> > running. Consider the following test steps:
> >
> > 1. Type "kt". Result: Nothing is selected, because nothing on my
> >    desktop starts with "kt".
> > 2. Press left arrow. Result: Selection doesn't change because focus
> >    is not on the desktop because I'm in the text field.
> > 3. Press backspace. Result: The "Trash" icon becomes selected because
> >    pressing left arrow in the previous step moved the caret one letter
> >    to the left. As a result, pressing backspace resulted in the
> >    previous character "k" being deleted, leaving only the "t" in the
> >    entry, and the "Trash" icon starts with "t" so the selection changes.
> >
> > As a sighted user, I find the above behavior confusing. It would be far
> > less confusing if the entry were on screen because focus is in that
> > entry. Having said that, if the Caja developers want to lie to Orca in
> > this particular case, then Orca users can be equally confused. And I am
> > 100% in favor of equal access. <smile> But that's strictly for the
> > Desktop -- and I have a concern which I'll come back to momentarily.
> >
> > In contrast, if I open a Caja window and perform similar steps in the
> > icon view, the typeahead search entry is visible. So I can see when I
> > mistakenly type a "k" before a "t". It's obvious that I can fix such a
> > mistake by pressing left arrow and then backspace. It's equally obvious
> > that pressing left arrow will not change selection in the icon view
> > because I am obviously not in the icon view; I'm in the entry. So when
> > the entry is visible, I think it would be bad if the Caja developers
> > lied to Orca in this case because doing so would mean users who are
> > blind are being denied information that sighted users have immediate
> > access to.
> >
> > As for the concern I mentioned earlier: On the one hand, lying to Orca
> > would mean that everyone is denied access to the same information
> > regarding where focus really is. So one could make the case that the
> > user experience is fair and equal, as I snarkily did above. But is it
> > really fair and equal? As a sighted user who is able to use the mouse, I
> > do not need to use the keyboard to select and open desktop items. And if
> > I don't clutter up my desktop, I use vision rather than typeahead search
> > to quickly locate what I wish to activate/open. The fact that focus goes
> > into a typeahead entry directly impacts what keys work and what they do.
> > In other words, the primary tool you use to interact with a device stops
> > working the way you expect it to. Is it really a good idea to deny you
> > of that information?
> >
> > Another thing to consider: If you have two icons on your desktop which
> > start with "t", what do you expect to happen if you press "t" twice in a
> > row? I would expect the selection to change from, say "Trash" to "Test
> > Folder." It doesn't. Selection is removed from all icons on the desktop
> > -- unless, of course, you have an icon which starts with two t's.
> >
> > Typeahead search should be thought of as the text field in a "find"
> > toolbar because that is how it behaves. If you pressed Ctrl+F and wound
> > up in an application's search field, should Orca not tell you that?
> > Should the application developer lie to Orca so that Orca has no clue
> > you are there??
> >
> > --joanie
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