Re: [orca-list] Mate: Annuncing editable text field on the desktop

[Raphaël POITEVIN <rpoitevin hypra fr>]

Hi Joanie,

About desktop case, I totally agree with you. Equal accessibility is 
fair. In Caja window, as Colomban says, it could be something which 
could be changed directly in Caja. The text field could be disabled by 
adding an option.

Raphaël

On 12/13/2016 01:32 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> Hi Raphaël.
>
> I just installed MATE in Fedora 25 and did some tests without Orca
> running. Consider the following test steps:
>
> 1. Type "kt". Result: Nothing is selected, because nothing on my
>    desktop starts with "kt".
> 2. Press left arrow. Result: Selection doesn't change because focus
>    is not on the desktop because I'm in the text field.
> 3. Press backspace. Result: The "Trash" icon becomes selected because
>    pressing left arrow in the previous step moved the caret one letter
>    to the left. As a result, pressing backspace resulted in the
>    previous character "k" being deleted, leaving only the "t" in the
>    entry, and the "Trash" icon starts with "t" so the selection changes.
>
> As a sighted user, I find the above behavior confusing. It would be far
> less confusing if the entry were on screen because focus is in that
> entry. Having said that, if the Caja developers want to lie to Orca in
> this particular case, then Orca users can be equally confused. And I am
> 100% in favor of equal access. <smile> But that's strictly for the
> Desktop -- and I have a concern which I'll come back to momentarily.
>
> In contrast, if I open a Caja window and perform similar steps in the
> icon view, the typeahead search entry is visible. So I can see when I
> mistakenly type a "k" before a "t". It's obvious that I can fix such a
> mistake by pressing left arrow and then backspace. It's equally obvious
> that pressing left arrow will not change selection in the icon view
> because I am obviously not in the icon view; I'm in the entry. So when
> the entry is visible, I think it would be bad if the Caja developers
> lied to Orca in this case because doing so would mean users who are
> blind are being denied information that sighted users have immediate
> access to.
>
> As for the concern I mentioned earlier: On the one hand, lying to Orca
> would mean that everyone is denied access to the same information
> regarding where focus really is. So one could make the case that the
> user experience is fair and equal, as I snarkily did above. But is it
> really fair and equal? As a sighted user who is able to use the mouse, I
> do not need to use the keyboard to select and open desktop items. And if
> I don't clutter up my desktop, I use vision rather than typeahead search
> to quickly locate what I wish to activate/open. The fact that focus goes
> into a typeahead entry directly impacts what keys work and what they do.
> In other words, the primary tool you use to interact with a device stops
> working the way you expect it to. Is it really a good idea to deny you
> of that information?
>
> Another thing to consider: If you have two icons on your desktop which
> start with "t", what do you expect to happen if you press "t" twice in a
> row? I would expect the selection to change from, say "Trash" to "Test
> Folder." It doesn't. Selection is removed from all icons on the desktop
> -- unless, of course, you have an icon which starts with two t's.
>
> Typeahead search should be thought of as the text field in a "find"
> toolbar because that is how it behaves. If you pressed Ctrl+F and wound
> up in an application's search field, should Orca not tell you that?
> Should the application developer lie to Orca so that Orca has no clue
> you are there??
>
> --joanie