GNOME.org
 

Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone

I should've clarified the versions, my bad.  It was back in 2011.  The phone I bought was a Motorola with 
Android 2.11.  What really sucked is that the manufacturer had put a cap on upgrades on the device so I 
couldn't get the 2.2 version which was said to have fixed a lot of the stuff I was dealing with.  My 
intention was not to mislead or vilify Android.  I believe I did mention that I was sure Android had come a 
long way since then.  I wouldn't entertain a Kindle otherwise as a possible tablet purchase in the future.  
The point I was trying to make is that Apple has a dedicated following because of the fine job they did with 
their devices at a time when the open source alternative was often quite unusable.  Obviously, their 
motivations will be far more financial than philanthropic but, that's part of a free market economy.  I'm 
personally OK with that.

Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Chaltain [mailto:chaltain gmail com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:56 PM
To: Alex Midence; 'kendell clark'; 'Dennis Westphal'
Cc: 'Orca-list'
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone

I can't argue with anyone's experience on Android, but I can assure you that the experience below is not 
typical of Android today. We have no idea what device or version of Android are being referred to below, but 
I got a Nexus 7 in the summer of 2014 running Android 4.2 on it. I quickly upgraded to Android 4.4 and last 
winter moved up to Android 5.0 followed shortly by Android 5.1.

My learning curve was comparable to that of the iPhone. I also could use the launcher that came with the 
tablet as well as Chrome, the browser, and both the Mail and Gmail apps. Google Calendar on Android is my 
preferred calendar and ditto for Google Keep for notes. I've since changed to a different launcher, email 
client and browser, although I didn't have to. Android will let you change default apps, which you can't do 
in IOS. Android also supports widgets, which gives you a quicker way to get to a lot of information.

I'm not saying that Android is better than IOS. I still have an iPhone myself, and I'm not sure if my next 
phone will be an Android phone or if I'll stick with an iPhone. My only point is that you shouldn't base your 
opinion of a platform on a message like the one below which is obviously based on a platform that's changed a 
lot since this unfortunate experience.

I agree Apple deserves a lot of credit for it's commitment to accessibility. I also get the fact that someone 
could be loyal to Apple for getting smart phone accessibility right before Google did. I also agree with the 
point about needing to be more objective.

Although I agree accessibility is a key feature when a blind person is considering a device, but just as 
sighted people consider many different aspects of a device, features unrelated to accessibility may be 
appealing to someone who might prefer Android or even Ubuntu Touch. I know I'm willing to put up with a few 
accessibility short comings if it means I get to replace my battery, use a memory card, change speech 
synthesizers, use different default apps, have access to widgets and so on. I'd be willing to put up with 
even more shortcomings if I could run Ubuntu Touch and Orca on a smart phone. Of course, I'd expect Ubuntu 
Touch to be working to catching up to these other platforms, but I'd be willing to wait and help contribute 
to it's development.


On 09/23/2015 08:25 AM, Alex Midence wrote:

I get that you are bitter but, you need to be objective about some of 
these things.  Apple is respected for its accomplishments in 
accessibility for good reason.  The experience is stable and 
intuitive.  It ought to be.  You pay out the nose for it.  I had an 
android device once.  The a11y on it was so broken I couldn't even 
hang up on someone when I was done with the call.  The browser 
experience was horrible unless you went out and got a special browser 
put out by a blind products developer.  Same with the e-mail.  Even 
then, you didn't have full functionality.  Calendar?  No way, totally 
busted.  I understand there has been some improvement since then but I 
will never forget the huge letdown I experienced when I bought my 
Android phone.  What made it even worse is that the accessibility 
solution was thought up and implemented by an actual blind developer.  
And the learning curve just to use the device?  Insane!  I must've 
spent like two days just trying to figure out how the stup

id thing worked.  Who in the world has time for such nonsense?  I even had to get a special dialer to make 
calls, the most basic of functions for a phone.  I had it for a few months so, I did get decently proficient 
at using it but was never truly happy with it.  I wound up losing it one day which turned out to be a 
wonderful thing.


Enter my iPhone.  I did have to get sighted assistance to turn on the accessibility features.  From there, 
though, I was browsing the web, e-mailing, setting up my calendar, texting, chatting, skyping and playing 
music in no time.  No special browser, e-mail client or dialer needed.  You used the built-in stuff right 
out of the box.  The same stuff everyone else used, I used.  Now, I don't know what you mean when you say 
you don't like the "Apple culture" or anything but, these people won my business fair and square.  They 
created a product I could use right out of the box easily, intuitively and efficiently with a minimum of 
frustration.  I even have a toggle switch to turn my special software off and pass the thing to one of my 
kids for them to play games on.  The idea of being able to share my technology with sighted members of my 
family was unheard of to me when I was younger.

If a touch phone using Ubuntu can give that kind of experience, I'm all for it.  I think it's a long way 
away from it though.

My two cents,
Alex M




-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of 
kendell clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:45 AM
To: Dennis Westphal
Cc: Orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone

hi
Dennis, I couldn't have said it better myself. Accessibility is a basic right that should have been 
included at the start of the project.
Designed in, rather than bolted on later after enough people complain.
That being said, not even apple, which for some reason is held up as the accessibility champion did this, 
so no company is perfect. Not even linux did this, though they were fairly fast at implementing 
accessibility for the text console, even if getting it going with a hardware synth was a pita.
Thanks
Kendell clark


On 09/23/2015 06:35 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:

Well that is  real miss step in my opinion that the Ubuntu Developers didnt include accessibility from the 
start of the project. However it still is in the early stages thats why I wanted to know if it would be 
possible to get orca running and make Ubuntu Phone usible for usable for us.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 23.09.2015 um 12:08 schrieb kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>:

hi
Don't take me too seriously when I get like this. I'm a little 
bitter when it comes to us being beneath notice. I've lived in the 
windows culture for so long despite me having switched to linux 4 years ago.
Blind agencies extatically point out the advantages of whatever 
platform gives them the most kickbacks, perks and endorcements, 
while conveniently ignoring the other options. Companies exploit us 
for profit, and make a killing at it. I watch my fellow blind people 
growing up used to being gouged for basic rights people without 
disabilities take for granted. Thank god for linux, and joanie, rob, 
luke, everyone who make linux usable by the blind Thanks Kendell 
clark



On 09/23/2015 04:41 AM, kendell clark wrote:
hi
I hate to burst your bubble, but afaik ubuntu is doing zero to make 
their phone platform accessible. Android or IOS are really your 
only options. Sad, but true as far as I know. This platform could 
be accessible, but it takes the developers putting time and effort 
into it, and as we all know, that's hard to get someone who doesn't 
depend on accessibility tech to understand. What? Blind people? Huh?
I don't understand. I'm not an IOS person, mostly because I refuse 
to buy into the apple culture, and also because I can't afford the 
vast majority of apple hardware. I've seen what apple fans are like 
and I don't really want to be caught up in that. Android fans can 
be just as fanatical I suppose, but I've never had an android phone for more than a few days.
Thanks
Kendell clark



On 09/23/2015 04:27 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:
iOS is in my opinion the most accessible plattform for mobile 
devices. However Id love to use orca and Linux in general on a 
mobile Phone or Tablet as well. I myself dont really like Android.
However I could really get behind using Ubuntu Phone and that way 
using Linux exclusively

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 23.09.2015 um 11:22 schrieb Vincenzo Rubano <vincenzo rubano studio unibo it>:

 From what I know, we’re really far from getting Orca running 
with them. If I remember correctly, the problem should be that 
the a11y infrastructure is not ready at all for handling touch 
screen events…

If you want to get an accessible touch screen device I would 
recommend going with an iDevice. Sure, there’s some accessibility 
support in Android devices as well, but I don’t think that it is 
as good as the support that iOS provides… And this is my personal 
opinion after having played a bit with both platforms and I do 
not intend to open up a flame…


Vincenzo.


Il giorno 23 set 2015, alle ore 09:31, Milton <milton duurzaamdigitaal org> ha scritto:

Me too would like to have such phone.
Milton

Op 23-09-15 om 09:15 schreef Dennis Westphal:

Hi guys,

I just was wondering if there is any intension to integrate orca in Ubuntu phone. Or if it is even 
possible.
If it would be possible I'd like to get my hands on one of them.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org



--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
[Date Prev][Date Next]   [Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Thread Index] [Date Index] [Author Index]