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Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone


Hi Chris,
I just had a quick check and I agree with your feedback on Android.
But I feel if some one can actually help out with some time every week or so and start the touch accessibility on Ubuntu phone rolling, then we will have some thing to test. If Android could do it, the only strong point they have is human resource for doing all the stuff including accessibility. 
Orca needs this very seriously.
Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.

On Thursday 24 September 2015 07:25 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
I can't argue with anyone's experience on Android, but I can assure you that the experience below is not typical of Android today. We have no idea what device or version of Android are being referred to below, but I got a Nexus 7 in the summer of 2014 running Android 4.2 on it. I quickly upgraded to Android 4.4 and last winter moved up to Android 5.0 followed shortly by Android 5.1.
My learning curve was comparable to that of the iPhone. I also could use the launcher that came with the tablet as well as Chrome, the browser, and both the Mail and Gmail apps. Google Calendar on Android is my preferred calendar and ditto for Google Keep for notes. I've since changed to a different launcher, email client and browser, although I didn't have to. Android will let you change default apps, which you can't do in IOS. Android also supports widgets, which gives you a quicker way to get to a lot of information.
I'm not saying that Android is better than IOS. I still have an iPhone myself, and I'm not sure if my next phone will be an Android phone or if I'll stick with an iPhone. My only point is that you shouldn't base your opinion of a platform on a message like the one below which is obviously based on a platform that's changed a lot since this unfortunate experience.
I agree Apple deserves a lot of credit for it's commitment to accessibility. I also get the fact that someone could be loyal to Apple for getting smart phone accessibility right before Google did. I also agree with the point about needing to be more objective.
Although I agree accessibility is a key feature when a blind person is considering a device, but just as sighted people consider many different aspects of a device, features unrelated to accessibility may be appealing to someone who might prefer Android or even Ubuntu Touch. I know I'm willing to put up with a few accessibility short comings if it means I get to replace my battery, use a memory card, change speech synthesizers, use different default apps, have access to widgets and so on. I'd be willing to put up with even more shortcomings if I could run Ubuntu Touch and Orca on a smart phone. Of course, I'd expect Ubuntu Touch to be working to catching up to these other platforms, but I'd be willing to wait and help contribute to it's development. 


On 09/23/2015 08:25 AM, Alex Midence wrote:
I get that you are bitter but, you need to be objective about some of these things. Apple is respected for its accomplishments in accessibility for good reason. The experience is stable and intuitive. It ought to be. You pay out the nose for it. I had an android device once. The a11y on it was so broken I couldn't even hang up on someone when I was done with the call. The browser experience was horrible unless you went out and got a special browser put out by a blind products developer. Same with the e-mail. Even then, you didn't have full functionality. Calendar? No way, totally busted. I understand there has been some improvement since then but I will never forget the huge letdown I experienced when I bought my Android phone. What made it even worse is that the accessibility solution was thought up and implemented by an actual blind developer. And the learning curve just to use the device? Insane! I must've spent like two days just trying to figure out how 
 the stup
id thing worked. Who in the world has time for such nonsense? I even had to get a special dialer to make calls, the most basic of functions for a phone. I had it for a few months so, I did get decently proficient at using it but was never truly happy with it. I wound up losing it one day which turned out to be a wonderful thing.
Enter my iPhone. I did have to get sighted assistance to turn on the accessibility features. From there, though, I was browsing the web, e-mailing, setting up my calendar, texting, chatting, skyping and playing music in no time. No special browser, e-mail client or dialer needed. You used the built-in stuff right out of the box. The same stuff everyone else used, I used. Now, I don't know what you mean when you say you don't like the "Apple culture" or anything but, these people won my business fair and square. They created a product I could use right out of the box easily, intuitively and efficiently with a minimum of frustration. I even have a toggle switch to turn my special software off and pass the thing to one of my kids for them to play games on. The idea of being able to share my technology with sighted members of my family was unheard of to me when I was younger.
If a touch phone using Ubuntu can give that kind of experience, I'm all for it. I think it's a long way away from it though. 

My two cents,
Alex M




-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of kendell clark 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:45 AM
To: Dennis Westphal
Cc: Orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone

hi
Dennis, I couldn't have said it better myself. Accessibility is a basic right that should have been included at the start of the project. 
Designed in, rather than bolted on later after enough people complain.
That being said, not even apple, which for some reason is held up as the accessibility champion did this, so no company is perfect. Not even linux did this, though they were fairly fast at implementing accessibility for the text console, even if getting it going with a hardware synth was a pita. 
Thanks
Kendell clark


On 09/23/2015 06:35 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:
Well that is real miss step in my opinion that the Ubuntu Developers didnt include accessibility from the start of the project. However it still is in the early stages thats why I wanted to know if it would be possible to get orca running and make Ubuntu Phone usible for usable for us. 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 23.09.2015 um 12:08 schrieb kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>:

hi
Don't take me too seriously when I get like this. I'm a little bitter
when it comes to us being beneath notice. I've lived in the windows
culture for so long despite me having switched to linux 4 years ago.
Blind agencies extatically point out the advantages of whatever
platform gives them the most kickbacks, perks and endorcements, while
conveniently ignoring the other options. Companies exploit us for
profit, and make a killing at it. I watch my fellow blind people
growing up used to being gouged for basic rights people without
disabilities take for granted. Thank god for linux, and joanie, rob,
luke, everyone who make linux usable by the blind Thanks Kendell
clark



On 09/23/2015 04:41 AM, kendell clark wrote:
hi
I hate to burst your bubble, but afaik ubuntu is doing zero to make
their phone platform accessible. Android or IOS are really your only
options. Sad, but true as far as I know. This platform could be
accessible, but it takes the developers putting time and effort into
it, and as we all know, that's hard to get someone who doesn't
depend on accessibility tech to understand. What? Blind people? Huh?
I don't understand. I'm not an IOS person, mostly because I refuse
to buy into the apple culture, and also because I can't afford the
vast majority of apple hardware. I've seen what apple fans are like
and I don't really want to be caught up in that. Android fans can be
just as fanatical I suppose, but I've never had an android phone for more than a few days. 
Thanks
Kendell clark



On 09/23/2015 04:27 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:
iOS is in my opinion the most accessible plattform for mobile
devices. However Id love to use orca and Linux in general on a
mobile Phone or Tablet as well. I myself dont really like Android.
However I could really get behind using Ubuntu Phone and that way
using Linux exclusively

Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 23.09.2015 um 11:22 schrieb Vincenzo Rubano <vincenzo rubano studio unibo it>: 

 From what I know, we’re really far from getting Orca running with
them. If I remember correctly, the problem should be that the a11y
infrastructure is not ready at all for handling touch screen
events…

If you want to get an accessible touch screen device I would
recommend going with an iDevice. Sure, there’s some accessibility
support in Android devices as well, but I don’t think that it is
as good as the support that iOS provides… And this is my personal
opinion after having played a bit with both platforms and I do not
intend to open up a flame…


Vincenzo.
Il giorno 23 set 2015, alle ore 09:31, Milton <milton duurzaamdigitaal org> ha scritto: 

Me too would like to have such phone.
Milton

Op 23-09-15 om 09:15 schreef Dennis Westphal:

Hi guys,
I just was wondering if there is any intension to integrate orca in Ubuntu phone. Or if it is even possible. 
If it would be possible I'd like to get my hands on one of them.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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