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Re: [orca-list] eclipse progress

I've used Eclipse in windows.  It is extremely accessible there.  What is harder is getting it to use your 
compilers.  It's kind of tricky.  When I was learning c++, it took me forever to get it to find MinGw which 
is the gnu c++ compiler for Windows.  Same thing with Python.  You have to actually tell it where to find 
your interpreter.  PHP is the same when I dabbled in it.  Java is about the onle one that comes preinstalled 
with the compiler for Eclipse you need.  In Linux, on the other hand, you don't have to monkey with any of 
that.  All the backend stuff just works right out of the box.  It was glorious!  Kind of makes me want to 
start messing with it again.

Alex M


-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of kendell clark
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:40 PM
To: Al Sten-Clanton; Christopher Chaltain; Michał Zegan; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] eclipse progress

hi
I can second this. I've seen the numbers game used as a reason before.
Well, all of our users are windows or mac, so we just can't justify making a linux client, so sorry. Why 
don't you switch to one of those?
Etc etc. Spotify in particular did this before they made libspotify, which a lot of programs use. Some of the 
network cards I buy at walmart from time to time are like this. Their users manuals only give instructions 
for windows and mac. Of course, those instructions are generally idiot proof, such as "just run the 
installer, and follow the steps." This has nothing to do with eclipse so I'll stop there. I've never used 
eclipse on windows, but I seem to remember it being a bit iffy there as well, but don't take my word for it. 
I haven't used eclipse more than a handful of times, and that was back when vista had just come out.

Thanks
Kendell clark


On 09/20/2015 11:36 AM, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:

Chris, I think a good approach might be to treat operating systems on 
a par and then prioritize within those.  Then, it might be more likely 
for the operating systems to gain or lose users on their own merits.  
Maybe they can't do that, but if they can, they should.

I didn't intend to imply an eclipse developer conspiracy against Linux.
 If that was the fairest reading of my comment, then I apologize:  I 
have no clue about what the eclipse developers think about software 
freedom or of Linux in particular, or even that there's a collective 
view.  I do tend to be cynical about a simple numbers game in that 
monopolies or near-monopolies tend to perpetuate their status, but 
that doesn't prove anything about the eclipse developers themselves.  
My suggestion for how to deal with bugs is meant as a way to counter 
that tendency but not to become partial the other way.  (Freedom, 
after all, by definition includes the right to use proprietary 
software.)

Al

On 9/20/2015 11:46 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:

True, but the number of blind Eclipse users on Linux is capped by the 
number of Linux users, and I suspect there are more Eclipse users on 
Windows then there are on Linux. Although having Eclipse work on 
Linux will probably help Linux penetration, I doubt it'll be enough 
to swap the market penetration numbers between Linux and Windows. 
Your argument also holds true for Windows users. If Eclipse doesn't 
fix bugs in Windows then they'll lose Windows users, which is 
probably a greater number of users right now.

I'm not sure what the alternative is. Are you suggesting that Eclipse 
developers get together and agree not to fix accessibility bugs in 
Linux to drive the number of Linux users down towards their ultimate 
goal of not supporting Linux at all? Seems like it would be a lot 
easier to just drop support of Linux.

I suspect it's more likely that Eclipse is like every other software 
project out there and they have more bugs then they can work on at 
any one time, so they prioritize their bugs based on severity and 
pervasiveness, so bugs impacting just blind users on Linux, although 
they won't necessarily be ignored altogether, may not get fixed as 
quickly as similar bugs on platforms with a greater number of users 
at the moment. I believe this is the more likely scenario, and I 
don't buy into this conspiracy to keep Linux down, especially not 
from a project like Eclipse.

On 09/20/2015 08:02 AM, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:

Although the numbers game is understandable, it would also tend to 
keep the number of Linux users low, and maybe justify giving up on 
Linux support.  Some cynicism seems in order.

Al

On 9/19/2015 10:16 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:

I'm not sure what criteria they use to prioritize their bugs, but I 
wouldn't be surprised if the number of users affected is part of 
the criteria. I'm guessing they have more Windows users then Linux 
users, so I wouldn't be surprised if bugs that show up only on 
Linux end up a bit lower in their priority queue. There's no 
cynicism involved here.

On 09/19/2015 07:48 PM, kendell clark wrote:

hi
My cinical side says they're prioritizing their windows 
accessibility over their linux accessibility, but don't take my 
word for it. I'm also not trying to start any debates either. 
Having said all that, I'll give eclipse a go and start trying to 
use it. If it's bad, I'll start attaching debug logs so joanie can 
look at it and find out what's wrong.
Are there open bugs against eclipse I can comment on?
Thanks
Kendell clark


On 09/19/2015 11:30 AM, Michał Zegan wrote:

Currently they seem not to respond, erhaps because they have too 
many bugs to fix, or perhaps they lost interest. but probably 
not, hm

W dniu 19.09.2015 o 18:17, Jann Schneider pisze:

Hi,

if they will fix These issues they will make it into SR1 or 
later. So currently we have to use the Luna release - which 
works very well with Java 8 and These things ...

Regards
Jann


2015-09-19 16:37 GMT+02:00, kk <krmane gmail com>:

I am interested too.
This is suc a powerful tool that I can do some good stuff using it.
Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.


On Saturday 19 September 2015 05:21 PM, Michał Zegan wrote:

Hello, any progress with current eclipse accessibility bugs or 
whatever?
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org






_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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