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Re: [orca-list] Eclipse is getting even worse

Obviously, as a user,you can have any opinion you want. As a user myself, who has also worked in business and software engineering, I think it is important for a user to know why a bug isn't being fixed. I've seen lots of statements on this and other lists that open source applications and distributions are released with the occasional bug or less than perfect support because of limited resources. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply for cross platform applications as well, namely they have limited resources, so they're going to have to prioritize the butgs they fix. I may not like it if my pet bug doesn't get addressed as quickly as I'd like, and I may move to another option, but my not liking it doesn't change the reality. It sounds like you're saying that if Eclipse can't solve every bug on Linux then you'd be happier if Eclispe just chose not to develop for or support Linux at all. I don't think this is the preferable option in all situations.
BTW, if a bug isn't fixed because the developers prioritize a bug in Windows before a bug in Linux, that's hardly Microsoft's fault. It's more Linux's fault for not doing a better job of having more users. 


On 11/05/2015 07:13 AM, kendell clark wrote:

hi
Lol. That's my fault. What  I meant was, that if a person is going to
release an app for windows and he intends that app to be cross platform,
than that app should be available on all platforms simultaneously. I've
seen cases where an app was released on windows first because, you know,
it's popular and so on, and released for others eventually or not at
all. It's all in the developer's intentions. If they intend to make an
app for windows only, then they don't have an obligation to release it
under linux or any other platform, although it would be nice. If,
however, they intend it to be cross platform then there's no excuse for
delays in it being available on all supported platforms. A good example
is the dell xps13 laptop. They have a windows version and a linux
version, though of course windows and linux will install and run on
either version. The windows version had higher specs and was released
first. The linux version was released, I think, 2 or 3 months later with
less specs. That attitude bothers me and this was, intended or not, a
statement taht windows is preferred over linux. And I don't see the
blindness community doing much if any to change it. We seem to be
thinking in two different ways. You think like a business, with market
shares and user penetration and so on. I think like a user. If you won't
fix a bug, all I see is that you aren't fixing the bug. The reason why
isn't really important, regardless what taht reason is.Are you wrong,
no, but it's cold comfort to me that microsoft is the reason why a linux
bug lingers. All that does is make me angry and resentful, and motivates
me to find an alternative to whichever app is doing it.
Thanks
Kendell clark


On 11/05/2015 07:05 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:

Not sure why you're jumping to such a conclusion without even giving the
developers a chance to respond.

I'm blind, and I want Linux to be on the same footing as Windows, but
it's a business fact that in some spaces applications have more market
penetration on another platform then they do on Linux. It would be a
pretty bad business decision to ignore market share and not take into
account how many customers are impacted by a certain bug. This doesn't
mean I like it, but I'm not going to ignore such a fact either. Knowing
information like this will help us understand why some applications may
not have the features or accessibility in Linux then they do on other
platforms, and let's us know that it isn't just an accessibility issue
but a market penetration issue. Just because I acknowledge a business
reality doesn't mean I like it or I'm not trying to change it.

Also, don't assume that just because I and maybe a few others don't
agree with your rants that the blind community as a whole is accepting
it. I don't speak for the blindness community as a whole but just myself.

If I can, your statement to me seems analogous to saying that I
shouldn't release an app for Android unless I'm also going to release it
for IOS, Windows Phone, Blackberry and so on. Where does it stop? I
guess the applications that are just developed for Linux should either
support Windows, OSX and other platforms or go away if the development
team doesn't have the resources to support every platform under the sun.



On 11/05/2015 02:26 AM, kendell clark wrote:

hi
Would commenting on the bug jan listed in his post not help? Or would
they simply reply with something like well windows is more popular so
we'll support that and get around to linux  eventually? Because I've got
to say, that attitude sucks and I'm tired of hearing it. What's worse,
the blind community at large seems to accept it, which I refuse to do.
All I want is for linux to be on equal footing with the other platforms.
Not special or preferential treatment, just equal. If you make something
for windows, you make it for linux at the same time. No delays, no
excuses. It's that simple.
Thanks
Kendell clark


On 11/05/2015 02:22 AM, Alex Midence wrote:

Sad to hear that something with such a rock solid reputation for
great accessibility across all platforms seems to be going in the
wrong direction in this regard now.

Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of
Jann Schneider
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 1:28 AM
To: kk
Cc: orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Eclipse is getting even worse

Hi,

@KK: reasons to use mars or better neon include:
- better Java 8 support:
-- Mars has more Java 8 support
-- neon seems to support it completely
-- Admitted, it's not very much that isn't working / compiling with
luna but i'd like to use the full power of Java 8
- Gradle support in eclipse:
-- they just released buildship, a plugin adding gradle support to
eclipse. But thats build using the Mars repositories and i believe
you cannot get it properly working with luna
- Well and as i'm developing eclipse plugins myselve i'd like to
support the current version of eclipse of course. Currently i can do
this by switching the repositories in my maven build but if they
change some API i make use of i'll be lost :-)

@All: unfortunately i don't know of any good, accessible alternative
to eclipse: AFAIU netbeans and intellij are both build using JavaFX.
And as we know, FX doesn't include any linux accessibility support at
all (which is really disapointing!).
So any hints and suggestions on that would be appreciated!

All the best
Jann

2015-11-02 12:24 GMT+01:00, kk <krmane gmail com>:

This is really sad.
Although I am still with Eclipse Luna, I think many may have some
features from Marse which they feel are important for their project
development.
Luna is much much better given that gtk2 still works with it.
Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.
K


On Monday 02 November 2015 01:27 PM, Jann Schneider wrote:

Hi All!

as a followup on the previous mails concerning eclipse mars: i've
just tested the M1 package of it (4.5.1). Looks like the setting that
forces GTK2 doesn't work anymore. Well, this was just a poor
workaround that made Eclipse partly accessible but not as good as
before, but anyway it doesn't work for me anymore.
Could some of you please test it and report your experiences to the
according bug {1} too?
Thanks in advance.

Jann

{1} https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=470031
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Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org





--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
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