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Re: [orca-list] Fwd: Re: [Support] autoinstall of talking arch

btw, no jail-breaking was necessary. On Wed, 18 Feb 2015, Todor Fassl 
wrote:


Where I work, there are about 70 linux end users and five or ten Windows
users. It's about a ten to one ratio. Over the years, most of the Windows
users have been made administrators on their machines because they got tired
of calling an IT staffer down every time they had to do anything on their
machine. I am not a Windows admin so I don't know what all the problems were.
But I think it was mostly virus scanner updates, installs, etc. Overy the same
time period, only 1 linux user has been given sudo rights on his machine. And
that was a political decision, not a practical one.

So now most of our Windows users are running as administrators and as a
result, they can install viruses unless they're careful. But the linux users
simply don't even have privileges to instal programs except in their own
space.  They literally can't alter systems programs. Pretty regularly, an end
user who doesn't know better will type "sudo apt-get install <package-name>".
They googled it and just typed what the instructions said. But that sends me a
message saying someone tried to do a command with sudo. I then log onto their
machine remotely and install it for them. The whole thing can take as little
as 2 minutes if I happen to be at my desk and not too busy doing something
else.

Like I said in another message, nobody ever asks for anything that is not in
the debian package repository. Well, I shouldn't say never. We do support
dropbox and skype. But one big problem is google-drive. There's no
google-drive package for linux.

Apple has seen the value of this package repository approach. That's why you
have to jailbreak your IOS device in order to install something that is not in
the Apple Store. I am sure the people at Apple knew people weren't going to
like Apple telling them where to get their apps from. In spite of all the
drawbacks, Apple clearly decided the benefits of controlling the package
repository outweighed the drawbacks.





On 02/18/2015 11:42 AM, Josh K wrote:

yes if businesses used ubuntu or red hat or arch or debian and if they stuck
to official repositories for their apps and games both GUI and CLI, they
would be quite safe.
I also read an article on about.com where there was a debate over which is
better, GUI or CLI in linux. the result said its best to use a mixture of
both GUI and CLI depending on what your needs are at the time.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982

On 2/18/2015 12:37 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:

Right but what's a "reputable source"? You are requiring the end user to
make a judgement call that simply isn't necessary in linux. When it comes
to deciding which operating system is more secure by design, this is a
huge point in favor of linux.

The last time I got into this debate it was on the nfb-cs list. The main
advocate for Windows pointed out that a standard install of debian starts
the rpc-bind daemon and opens port 111. Well, you *could* stop that, after
all. But my main problem with the point is that I've never heard of anyone
using port 111 and the rpc-bind daemon as an attack vector. I googled for
exploits and didn't find anything. To compare a flaw like that to the
problems in Windows is really misleading.

You can tell end users to install programs from reputable sources but that
is easier said than done.


On 02/17/2015 08:22 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:

Installing applications from official repositories is a choice. There
are plenty of other ways to get applications on to your system. If you
practice some common sense on Windows, and only install applications you
get from reputable sources and keep your software up to date you'll go a
lon ways towards avoiding malware on Windows.

On 02/17/2015 02:29 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:

No, linux is less prone to viruses because almost everything you
install
is from an official repository. It would be difficult to get a virus
into an official repository. Even if you did, you'd only do it once
because you'd be blackballed as a developer for forever. And the
source
code is there for everyone to see.

As far as I know, no one has ever gotten a virus into a package from
an
official repository for any major distro. I've been watching security
email lists and newsletters for years for something like that and I've
never seen it.


What a hacker could do is to include a program compiled for linux as
an
email attachment. You could run it by double clicking on it but it
couldn't change systems files unless you ran it via sudo and entered
your password. You could probably write a program that first asked for
your password and then forked itself and infected your system. That'd
be
rather obvious though.


On 02/16/2015 01:12 PM, Josh K wrote:

but if everybody ran linux all of a sudden wouldn't the virus makers
then target linux just like they target windows now? and if they put
an all out viral assault on linux wouldn't linux cave like windows
does often?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982

On 2/16/2015 1:32 PM, Kyle wrote:

With things like viruses, compromises of personal data and other
things
we hear about in the news every day, I could never recommend
running
Windows in an office setting either. Fact is that Windows was
initially
designed for gamers and children, whereas Linux and other
Unix-like
operating systems have been designed with business in mind, and
have
only recently, say within the last 10 to 12 years or so, gotten to
the
point where more casual home users can feel comfortable using it.
No
marketing hype in the world will change my perception of Windows
as a
toy and nothing more, especially when I can't watch the news
without
seeing yet another infected ATM, credit card machine or other bank
or
store related terminal that never should have been running Windows
in
the first place, but has been compromised because it does, and an
old
version at that. So yeah, I'm for Linux or BSD all the way, and
Linux is
the most polished OS I've been able to find that talks to me,
unless
anyone has any pointers on how to get a *real* BSD (NOT MacOS)
talking,
in which case, I'm all ears. Man do I want me some BSD! But then
again,
BSD just doesn't seem to have the hardware support or even the
ease of
use that Linux now enjoys, so it will still require some shell
knowledge
at this point, and I can't really recommend it to novice users the
way I
have been able to get them turned on to the easier
non-geek-oriented
Linux distros.
Sent from my coffee maker


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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




jude <jdashiel shellworld net>
Twitter: @JudeDaShiell
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