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Re: [orca-list] Fwd: Re: [Support] autoinstall of talking arch

Where I work, there are about 70 linux end users and five or ten Windows users. It's about a ten to one ratio. Over the years, most of the Windows users have been made administrators on their machines because they got tired of calling an IT staffer down every time they had to do anything on their machine. I am not a Windows admin so I don't know what all the problems were. But I think it was mostly virus scanner updates, installs, etc. Overy the same time period, only 1 linux user has been given sudo rights on his machine. And that was a political decision, not a practical one.
So now most of our Windows users are running as administrators and as a result, they can install viruses unless they're careful. But the linux users simply don't even have privileges to instal programs except in their own space. They literally can't alter systems programs. Pretty regularly, an end user who doesn't know better will type "sudo apt-get install <package-name>". They googled it and just typed what the instructions said. But that sends me a message saying someone tried to do a command with sudo. I then log onto their machine remotely and install it for them. The whole thing can take as little as 2 minutes if I happen to be at my desk and not too busy doing something else.
Like I said in another message, nobody ever asks for anything that is not in the debian package repository. Well, I shouldn't say never. We do support dropbox and skype. But one big problem is google-drive. There's no google-drive package for linux.
Apple has seen the value of this package repository approach. That's why you have to jailbreak your IOS device in order to install something that is not in the Apple Store. I am sure the people at Apple knew people weren't going to like Apple telling them where to get their apps from. In spite of all the drawbacks, Apple clearly decided the benefits of controlling the package repository outweighed the drawbacks. 





On 02/18/2015 11:42 AM, Josh K wrote:
yes if businesses used ubuntu or red hat or arch or debian and if they stuck to official repositories for their apps and games both GUI and CLI, they would be quite safe. I also read an article on about.com where there was a debate over which is better, GUI or CLI in linux. the result said its best to use a mixture of both GUI and CLI depending on what your needs are at the time. 

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982

On 2/18/2015 12:37 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
Right but what's a "reputable source"? You are requiring the end user to make a judgement call that simply isn't necessary in linux. When it comes to deciding which operating system is more secure by design, this is a huge point in favor of linux.
The last time I got into this debate it was on the nfb-cs list. The main advocate for Windows pointed out that a standard install of debian starts the rpc-bind daemon and opens port 111. Well, you *could* stop that, after all. But my main problem with the point is that I've never heard of anyone using port 111 and the rpc-bind daemon as an attack vector. I googled for exploits and didn't find anything. To compare a flaw like that to the problems in Windows is really misleading.
You can tell end users to install programs from reputable sources but that is easier said than done. 


On 02/17/2015 08:22 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
Installing applications from official repositories is a choice. There are plenty of other ways to get applications on to your system. If you practice some common sense on Windows, and only install applications you get from reputable sources and keep your software up to date you'll go a lon ways towards avoiding malware on Windows. 

On 02/17/2015 02:29 PM, Todor Fassl wrote:
No, linux is less prone to viruses because almost everything you install 
is from an official repository. It would be difficult to get a virus
into an official repository. Even if you did, you'd only do it once
because you'd be blackballed as a developer for forever. And the source 
code is there for everyone to see.
As far as I know, no one has ever gotten a virus into a package from an 
official repository for any major distro. I've been watching security
email lists and newsletters for years for something like that and I've
never seen it.
What a hacker could do is to include a program compiled for linux as an 
email attachment. You could run it by double clicking on it but it
couldn't change systems files unless you ran it via sudo and entered
your password. You could probably write a program that first asked for
your password and then forked itself and infected your system. That'd be 
rather obvious though.


On 02/16/2015 01:12 PM, Josh K wrote:

but if everybody ran linux all of a sudden wouldn't the virus makers
then target linux just like they target windows now? and if they put
an all out viral assault on linux wouldn't linux cave like windows
does often?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982

On 2/16/2015 1:32 PM, Kyle wrote:
With things like viruses, compromises of personal data and other things 
we hear about in the news every day, I could never recommend running
Windows in an office setting either. Fact is that Windows was initially 
designed for gamers and children, whereas Linux and other Unix-like
operating systems have been designed with business in mind, and have
only recently, say within the last 10 to 12 years or so, gotten to the 
point where more casual home users can feel comfortable using it. No
marketing hype in the world will change my perception of Windows as a 
toy and nothing more, especially when I can't watch the news without
seeing yet another infected ATM, credit card machine or other bank or store related terminal that never should have been running Windows in the first place, but has been compromised because it does, and an old version at that. So yeah, I'm for Linux or BSD all the way, and Linux is 
the most polished OS I've been able to find that talks to me, unless
anyone has any pointers on how to get a *real* BSD (NOT MacOS) talking, in which case, I'm all ears. Man do I want me some BSD! But then again, BSD just doesn't seem to have the hardware support or even the ease of use that Linux now enjoys, so it will still require some shell knowledge at this point, and I can't really recommend it to novice users the way I 
have been able to get them turned on to the easier non-geek-oriented
Linux distros.
Sent from my coffee maker


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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html 
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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