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Re: [orca-list] Orca now has preliminary support for object mode / non-layout mode. Yes. Really.

B.H. convinced me. I vote to have this feature as GUI only, so that we can keep keyboard commands for things that are switched/used much more often. 

Fernando

On 09/12/2014 11:55 AM, B. Henry wrote:

Sorry for the additional post, missed the question as to how to enter the obj mode.
For sure there needs to be a GUI option, presumably in the general tab, to use the object or traditional
presentation/layout.
I am not at all sure that a toggle key binding is needed here. While I'm certainly in favor of all the 
flexibility that
can reasonably be included in Orca key bindings are a limited comodity, and it's gettint tough for me to find 
logical and
comfortable key combos. I'm sure there will be at least a few people wwho will use the object mode as default 
who will
want to occasionally switch to get an idea as to how the page looks. Sure, one can disable a keybinding or 
change it, but
I just don't think this one is that needed.
Also, if I understand the situation you do not need a seperate line for checkbox label to have simple 
interaction with a
checkbox in described situation. If I'm wrong, then add the extra line to keep interaction as simple as 
possible.
When there are lists of checkboxes and the like it often becomes confusing if labels are not spoken at the 
same time as
the item they are labeling. I often find myself wondering whether a check box is for the content spoken after 
the
announcement of checkbox, or that read before...I've added or removed some one to receive friend invites on 
facebook in
this type of situation just to give one little example.
Actually, there may be a case I'd toggle in to an object mode, if it gives a clear display of what a checkbox 
or or other
object really pertains to, so I'd use that toggle keybinding if it were there possibly, but still lean 
towards not haviing
the binding at all.
And as to what a binding would be???
Toggling is not really that convenient, but is only one additional combo. Orca l and o??, I would think those 
are already
used, but will have to check, and I can not think of anything that is reasonably easy to type, remember and 
not already
used by something else.
Thanks,

--
B.H.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:47:46AM -0300, Fernando Botelho wrote:

This is great! Thanks Joanie!

My two cents on each of your questions:


...not treating a checkbox and its label as if they were on separate lines.
(Or do you want those kept separate?)

I can get used to having them on the same or separate line, the important
thing to me, as somebody else also said, is that I want to be able to just
press spacebar without having to shift tab when I am on the line. So if
having the checkbox on its own line is necessary for this, I vote for that.

* What should Orca do when there is punctuation and whitespace in
   between two links? Are those three "lines" or just two?

I vote for two lines in that case.

1. Do we need both a GUI option and a command to toggle it, or just
    one or the other?

I believe we need both.

2. If we need a command to toggle it, any suggestions for the bindings?
    Orca+L for Layout or Orca+O for object would be great -- and are
    available in Desktop Layout. But then Laptop Layout would need a
    different command. Suggestions very much welcome.

I suggest we avoid a key that will have to change when people switch to
laptop mode. So many of us need to use laptops these days. I suggest
something like Orca + Y as was suggested earlier.

3. Tell me honestly how important it is for the command and/or GUI
    option to ship as part of 3.14? Would it be sufficient if this is
    settable via orca-customizations.py for 3.14 and then all sorts of
    user-friendly-configurable in 3.16? The reason I ask is that I try
    really, really, really hard to not burden the localization team.
    Asking for a freeze break and for them to do additional work this
    close to the release strikes me as a burden. Plus even if I ask,
    they might still say "no."

I think this is a big deal, a major feature. I would ask. They can always
say know and we would all understand.

Thanks,

Fernando

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