Re: [orca-list] Queries regarding e-book readers for Visually Impaired

["B. Henry" <burt1iband gmail com>]

OK, 
This is valuable input. 
I will completely refrain from any future comments over whether or not the proposed price is fair and or 
reasonable. 
Now the most important question is can we raise the more than $500 proposed by Mr. Dunn or not. 
If so, and I am talking in no more than a few months, has the student from Goa had a chance to look at the 
code and see if this project is something 
that is within his skillset, i.e. do we have options or a fallback plan?
Once more I'll give my eddress to avoid list clutter with folks offering donations, although they may of 
course inspire others to give. 
I will report as mentioned quickly if many are offering, or totals are notable, other wise report in a week 
or so as to where we stand so that there is 
possitive feedback.
esvenux at vinuxproject dot org
and again, if you are listening, the address above has at and dot spelled out, so you wil need to edit and 
copy in to your email program or web app.
Regards, and thanks again for your sharing your experiences Willem.
--
B.H.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 08:35:36AM +0200, Willem van der Walt wrote:
> Parsing xml reliably, given what is all acceptable, is not a walk in the
> park, so do not under estimate the work.
> Correctly interpriting these standards documents and then implementing the
> standard also take quite some skill.
> I have worked with mr. Dun before, and we had a propper preposal and very
> good progress reporting.  The work was completed in the time planned, and
> according to requirement.
> It was a good experience contracting this person.
> Obviously, these things are open-source, so nothing stop one to do their own
> thing.
> Hope this clarify one or two things.
> Kind regards, Willem
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2014, B. Henry wrote:
>
> > Yes, I do agree that an experienced but not rockstar C coder probably does make something in the salary 
> > range we are talking about.
> > My almost uneducated guess though is that there is little special knowledge required  to complete this 
> > project, and having a bit of knowledge and
> > experience with a11y would make this go pretty quickly. That's why I thought the price a bit high, not 
> > talking magnitudes, but double what my
> > counteroffer would be.
> > Splitting the difference actually may be reasonable for this work. Again, I'm using intuitioni as much as 
> > any concrete knowledge in my "analysis".
> > A kick-starter campaign makes  a lot of sense to me. Has anyone ever put together a kickstarter project 
> > before?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:29:00PM -0600, Alex Midence wrote:
> > > Just playing devil's advocate here so, don't take it wrong ... Your average c++ coder makes in the 75k to 
> > > 100k unless he's entry level here in Texas.  The other thing someone who charges this much can claim is 
> > > specialized knowledge which usually drives prices up.  I think being able to understand Daisy and a11y 
> > > needs qualifies as specialized knowledge.  For what it's worth, my eyebrows went way up when I read the 
> > > price tag too and I frankly couldn't afford it either.  The questions that come to mind for me are:
> > >
> > > 1.  Is it negotiable?  Is 5k just a sort of initial offering just to get negotiations started or his 
> > > final offer?
> > > 2.  Aside from c++, how much specialized knowledge does this project require?
> > > 3.  How long will it take to develop?
> > > 4.  Will the developer be on hand to fix bugs and the like once the feature is implemented as a matter of 
> > > course or, will that cost money too?
> > >
> > > I suspect any Lions club type organization will be keenly interested in some of these and probably more?
> > >
> > > Alex M
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: B. Henry [mailto:burt1iband gmail com]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 8:03 PM
> > > To: Alex Midence; orca-list gnome org
> > > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Queries regarding e-book readers for Visually Impaired
> > >
> > > I do not  care all that much about daisy, and $5k is too much I feel for this honestly, but I may have a 
> > > connection or two I can bring on board.
> > > I'd like to see a better price though as this does not seem like something that difficult to a good coder 
> > > on the surface. Perhaps I am totally off base but daisy is just css xml and other common formats, and as 
> > > the target consumer of daisy is poorer than the average bear I'd say a bit of consideration on the dev's 
> > > part may be in order. That's 100hours at $50 an hour. I've never made $50 an hour for anything legal, and 
> > > doubt most of you are payed this well. For those weak in math, we are talking over $100,000 a year using 
> > > 40 hour work weeks.
> > > Most lions do not make so much either although many of course make much more I reckon.
> > > I'd rather find a student who really needs tto make a buck and let them learn, pay some books and meals 
> > > and such if I'm going to consider 5k. Again, not out of my pocket, even if I were a rich dude I'd think 
> > > twice about financing this, but enough of the hypothetical bull.
> > > Love you guys, and if a lot of folks think this is important I will start talking to the couple of 
> > > contacts I have on the off chance that this can come about, but I'd try and get a much better price 
> > > before moving and my heart probably would not be in it for 5k.
> > > --
> > >
> > > B.H.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:36:00PM -0600, Alex Midence wrote:
> > > > This is the sort of thing that Lions clubs and other charitable organizations can contribute to. Does 
> > > > anyone have connections with such organizations? Does anyone have experience in grant  letter writing?
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:25 PM, Fernando Botelho <Fernando Botelho F123 org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, there goes my hope of something affordabel and quick.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Fernando
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 11/17/2014 06:23 PM, kendell clark wrote:
> > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > > > Hash: SHA512
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > according to the email he just sent me, he wants something like 5000
> > > > > > bucks to implement it. He also wants 1500 bucks to implement the book
> > > > > > list and all that goes with it. Of course, none of us can add this
> > > > > > ourselves, he says something about getting a group to contract him.
> > > > > > I'm not holding out much hope at the moment
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Kendell clark
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/17/2014 06:28 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
> > > > > > > Does anyone know if this book reading software have interface in
> > > > > > > multiple languages?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, how much of an investment are we talking about to get it to
> > > > > > > read Daisy?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fernando
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/17/2014 07:27 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hi My idea of a book list is one where you can select a directory
> > > > > > > where your books are kept, and the program will go through and get
> > > > > > > the books available in that folder by analyzing the books xml data.
> > > > > > > This would work equally for epub as well as daisy books. It might
> > > > > > > display something like the following. books list view. book title
> > > > > > > 1: current position: wherever you left off. Etc. Thanks Kendell
> > > > > > > clark
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 11/17/2014 03:14 AM, Peter V??gner wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hello, The project is open source however developer is
> > > > > > > > > > looking for some funding so he can do his best in order to
> > > > > > > > > > implement it. E.G. see here for bookmarks related issue...
> > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/rhdunn/cainteoir-gtk/issues/6 What is a
> > > > > > > > > > book list as you are describing it? Ability to open recently
> > > > > > > > > > viewed books is already there and also ability to see the
> > > > > > > > > > list of chapters. Reading can be started from any point from
> > > > > > > > > > that list.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is really awesome piece of software, it's well written
> > > > > > > > > > continually maintained and the developer is cooperative,
> > > > > > > > > > really an expert, considers accessibility and all other stuff
> > > > > > > > > > we might have imagined.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Another his big reference is eSpeak for android.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 17.11.2014 at 09:10 kendell clark wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > hi Nods, just sent out an email to the developer. If he'll
> > > > > > > > > > add daisy support,a nd possibly at some point later
> > > > > > > > > > bookmarking support and book lists, we'll have ourselves a
> > > > > > > > > > daisy reader that can read other formats too. Thanks Kendell
> > > > > > > > > > clark On 11/17/2014 02:06 AM, Peter V??gner wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, Well gtk UI for cainteoir is not as feature rich
> > > > > > > > > > > > > as we would wish however I have to add another positive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > comments it is accessible. Even content is rendered
> > > > > > > > > > > > > into a read only edit field for some simple proof
> > > > > > > > > > > > > reading.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17.11.2014 at 06:27 Willem van der Walt wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is cainteoir which now supports epub3 with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > media overlays. The player, however is not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > feature-ritch at the moment.  If someone is good at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > writing c++, that player could be expanded to be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite good. The cainteoir library supports reading a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > number of formats. On Android, there is a player
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > called menestrelo which is good for reading epub3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > HTH, Willem
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 16 Nov 2014, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That???s too bad about epub readers. I think these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other solutions involving conversions and kludging
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around with other formats just ruins the epub
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experience. I really like the direct navigation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features found in Apple???s iBooks applications on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all their devices. I wonder if evince can deal with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PDF books though. Has anyone had a chance to try
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this? Many times, books are released in PDF as an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alternative to epub but still include much of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navigations normally available in epub. My biggest
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complaint with converting stuff to plain text or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whatever is you lose all that rich navigation that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes with hyper text publications. Even HTML books
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navigate OK but you can???t place bookmarks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > throughout the text with a web browser.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 2014, at 8:46 PM, Dhairyashil Bhosale
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <dhairyashil bhosale584 gmail com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI, As you mentioned about e-book reader, the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FBReader, CoolReader and Calibre e-book readers
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are widely used on Linux platform but I am also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking some other e-book reader that will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support all type of e-book format and will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accessible with Orca. So I have some information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regarding to your queries
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the tools available to read
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-books?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :- The FBReader, CoolReader and Calibre are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > available for Linux and Android platform. but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FBReader and CoolReader have limited support for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-book format, but Calibre support all type of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-book format and Calibre is open source for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Linux platform but not for Android. Lucidor is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also used for reading e-books but its have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > limited feature.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Accessibility issues (if any) with e-book
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-  The FBReader, CoolReader and Calibre are not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accessible to orca. I used these e-book reader
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Orca but Orca is not able to read these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-book readers. But Lucidor e-book reader is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accessible with orca screen reader, but it have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some issue while reading e-books.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Navigation related issues with e-book
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :- while using these e-book reader they have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > limited navigation feature, if we press
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mouce-scroll button for zoom-in then it will not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work as page number wise. so these e-book readers
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have limited navigation facilities.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With Regards, Dhairyashil
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6.  Queries regarding e-book readers for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visually Impaired (Leena Chourey)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Message: 6 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:18:49 +0530
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Leena Chourey <leenagour gmail com> To:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Orca-list <orca-list gnome org>,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gnome-accessibility-list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evince-list gnome org,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > poppler lists freedesktop org Subject:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [orca-list] Queries regarding e-book readers for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visually Impaired Message-ID:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <CAD-S5bOtwATLYwtoKXruHG=XknecYOREuicH3aLaHmx1_rSwrQ mail gmail com>
> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While exploring about the e-book reading facility
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for Visually Impaired, I found that various
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > formats like epub, pdf are availble. Various
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > readers like FBReader, Coolreader, Caliber people
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use. Please help to find answer for my queries
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - What are the tools available to read e-books? -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it require to have specific readers to read
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-books? - Widely used e-book readers working on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Linux & Android platform and with screen reader
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like Orca - Accessibility issues (if any) with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-book reader - Navigation related issues with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > e-book reader
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leena
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Orca. The manual is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information on Orca. The manual is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Orca. The manual is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > on Orca. The manual is at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
> > > > > > > > list orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
> > > > > > > > http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
> > > > > > > > manual is at
> > > > > > > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
> > > > > > > > out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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> > > > > > fc4LSbXVzEnmgnCWT2joevWrm/8t0NMedDYOruZqI5h7b9KlQDeGgYbZihd5HsAI
> > > > > > pet5UyJUQS9qdc/R5Novt/PoywvwpRMZPHmt0Z+zDIj5F7F1iCQqL3fXOARqS3De
> > > > > > 90lnfN5IMx2Hnox+Tpnt
> > > > > > =IqMH
> > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> > > > > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> > > > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp