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Re: [orca-list] Experimental focus versus browse mode committed to master

Hello,
When you are in a combobox you switch into focus mode either manually or automatically while changing options in that combobox orca does not switch to browse mode at least not with standard comboboxes. 
For example try out the following page: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi
As the page loads you are placed into an edit field and focus mode is automagically being switched to. This is because the web app you have just visited gives a focus to that field on page load thus I think the fact orca switches to focus mode in this scenario is good. 
Now press orca+a to switch to browse mode.
Then press the letter c in order to find the next combobox.
This command will wrap over the bottom and place the focus in to status combobox. Focus mode will be automagically activated for you. We are in an open discussion on this whether orca should change to focus mode in this situation. Now you can arrow up and down and you will likelly notice options in a combobox are changing and orca stays in the focus mode. When you are done with the selection you can either switch to browse mode and read the surounding text or press the tab key to navigate to other control where orca decides whether to switch the browse vs focus mode. Now when you are repeatedly pressing the tab key you are moving over product combobox, words entry, and finally search button. Again when you tab into that search button should orca change to browse mode or should it stays in focus mode? In order to better diagnose the situation you are experiencing with comboboxes on your SIP registrar web site we will need to find a similar page we can experience it on so it can be really addressed. Can you try pressing alt+down arrow when you are on the combobox switched to focus mode to find out whether it will make a difference? I am guessing NVDA has some kind of additional behaviour for comboboxes I am afraid it's not enough just giving focus to them and activating focus mode. 

Greetings

Peter





On 10.08.2014 at 21:58 B. Henry wrote:

The solution seems to be having a way to toggle the mode until it's toggled again, i.e. stickty mode , or in 
other words
just toggle off the automatc switching between modes.
I do not know what triggers the mode switching. I'm no coder, but might understand given time to examine the 
code in
question, don't have that time today anyway, and might be able to understand, not would understand anyway.
My point is, I can arrow upor down once, twice sometimes I think when at the very top position in the list 
where the label
says something like please select. Then the mode switches back and I move to the next element, an edit box, 
or maybe it's
an entry, don't remember.
My question back to you, and I'm certainly not looking for heated argument, just clear understanding and 
something close
to consensus as to what's most effective before we are all finished, is:
Are you saying that a combo box is harder to work with than radio buttons?
If so, what would be the usage case or reason where one would not want to be able to continue to up and down 
arrow through
all of the elements?
If there are times when thre are combo boxes where one would need to use the tab with out leaving the combo 
box what are
they?
I understand that we generally want consistent behavior with arrows and tabs, but why would there even be 
need for
inconsistent behavior as when one reaches the lilmites of the combo box the mode could automatically switch 
whether one
arrowed all the way to the bottom or top, or if one tabs out of the element?
And if there are cases where the kind of thing I'm asking about occurs, then are they so numerous that it's 
worth having
to use two or three keypresses for each move up and down a list as opposed to  making the default being a 
sticky mode
switch when one is in a combo box, maybe some other element types as well?
If the answer to the last one is yes, (which I can't imagine at this time, but am quite likely missing 
something obvious),
then we are still back to toggling on and off of automatic mode switching. The difference would be whether 
auto switching
would be on or off by default once one entered the combo ox.
If you are asking me something else, please explain and I'll try and answer.
I'll likely be off line with in an hour or so for a few hours, but will read mail again when I get home.

Regards,
--
B.H.

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 08:26:57AM +0200, Peter Vágner wrote:

    Hello,
    I would like to avoid strong arguments if possible. However i think
    this might really be inpossible or difficult to provide interaction
    with comboboxes and other rich content from within  browse mode. We
    can have browse mode exceptions for some simple controls with simple
    actions  such as buttons, radio buttons and check boxes. Do you have
    more ideas regarding your comboboxes use case? Can you post them?

    Greetings

    Peter

    DÅa 10.8.2014 5:25 použÃvateľ "B. Henry" <[1]burt1iband gmail com>
    napÃsal:

      This has promise, and so far has worked pretty well.
      I have not updated since sometime last night, so if the issue I
      describe has been addredssed, please excuse me.
      I may have missed a messae that pertains to this as the traffic's
      rather heavy, and I've not gotten through all my mail;
      also may have inadvertently deleted something I hadn't read.
      When in a combo box it's not at all efficient to havwe to either tab
      out and back in to continue down the list, or use
      orca-a each time to leave browse mode.
      This seems to be more or less universal, but I've not tested on many
      sites. Mostly I'm experiencing this on the
      [2]callcentric.com site, but you'd need an account to see it as I've
      been configuring a new account in the user porthole
      pages.
      This kind of control needs to stay in the focus mode untilone
      manually leaves it to have a practical user experience.
      Some pages seem to be quite a bit more responsive when navigating
      down with arrows now, and although I sure don't like all
      those extra keystroikes the mode changes were happening as fast as I
      was typing, so for sure you are on to something here.
      Regards,
      --
      B.H.
      On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 04:40:17PM -0400, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
      > Hey guys.
      >
      > Based on the feedback received, I have just committed the
      following
      > changes to master:
      >
      > * Orca will automatically switch between "focus mode" and "browse
      mode"
      >
      > * Orca will announce "focus mode" or "browse mode" when it does
      this
      > Â  for you. It is currently at the end of the presentation of the
      new
      > Â  location. That way, if you know what the deal is (of course it
      is in
      > Â  focus mode now), you don't have to listen to Orca tell you. You
      can
      > Â  just keep browsing or interacting with the widget.
      >
      > * The current keybinding is Orca + A. This will toggle between the
      two
      > Â  modes. I chose this because we needed something for you to
      test. And
      > Â  it was the only suggestion I saw proposed by y'all which didn't
      > Â  conflict with existing bindings or result in complaints from
      someone
      > Â  else. If y'all don't like Orca + A, propose something we all
      can live
      > Â  with or rebind it to something you can live with.
      >
      > * All the non-perfomant and non-reliable logic about whether or
      not Orca
      > Â  should really control things is ripped out. Arrowing seems a
      bit more
      > Â  peppy to me now. I hope you find the same.
      >
      > What I have not committed/done yet:
      > * Playing tones. That's a nice to have. We can add it later.
      > * Documentation. We don't know what the final feature will look
      like.
      > * Settings. Orca does it automatically. It's easy to toggle off.
      >
      > What would be extremely helpful is testing from you to see what
      you all
      > think. What is totally broken, what must be changed, etc. In the
      > meantime, I'll see what I can do about the looping, etc.
      >
      > Thanks!
      > --joanie
      > _______________________________________________
      > orca-list mailing list
      > [3]orca-list gnome org
      > [4]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
      > Visit [5]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
      > The manual is at
      [6]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.h
      tml
      > The FAQ is at
      [7]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
      > Log bugs and feature requests at [8]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
      > Find out how to help at [9]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
      _______________________________________________
      orca-list mailing list
      [10]orca-list gnome org
      [11]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
      Visit [12]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
      The manual is at
      [13]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.
      html
      The FAQ is at
      [14]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
      Log bugs and feature requests at [15]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
      Find out how to help at [16]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

References

    1. mailto:burt1iband gmail com
    2. http://callcentric.com/
    3. mailto:orca-list gnome org
    4. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    5. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
    6. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
    7. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    8. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
    9. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
   10. mailto:orca-list gnome org
   11. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
   12. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
   13. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
   14. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
   15. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
   16. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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