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Re: [orca-list] Orca and Epiphany?

Hello,
I am verry sorry to follow on this with a bunch of semi tested and vague reported stuff however I do have this in mind for quite some time and I was unable to make a proper report documenting this. I think as more and more aria related improvements are finding its way through to more and more main stream sites such as google web services, facebook and twitter there are issues where it becomes difficult to navigate such modern pages.
Example 1 google groups messages within a topic for example here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/otrs_archive/atwWi_4owr8 It is not possible to use the arrow keys or say all to read the whole conversation top to bottom because there are some unlabeled controls between individual messages where orca gets stuck and I need to arrow past these by ussing right arrow key. Navigation by word, navigation by line nor say all can get through these I am afraid. Also it is not possible to get out from the toolbar at the top of the conversation other way than by tabbing around moving by arrow keys causes nothing audible. Maybe this is correct and all the controls are still accessible by pressing tab and / or shift+tab I am just not entirelly sure if this is the case. There are a lot of issues like this in the google web services e.g. gmail, google adwords etc. The biggest issue which can be seen for example while using the gmail web interface is that list of messages is only accessible while gecko navigation is used. I don't know if this can be generalized more or at least be scripted somehow for the gmail app but with significant tryal and error it is not obvious when and where to switch orca vs gecko caret browsing. I think I am experienced user and I am even more afraid that it might be even more critical to new users. Additionally the popup menus such as those shown when pressing on a colapsed toggle buttons require the same kind of tryal and error. Most of them require switching from orca to gecko caret navigation. List of hangouts friend in the gmail web interface however does not require this kind of switching, this is something to build on I believe. These concepts are also being used on various widelly recognized sites such as facebook, twitter, youtube etc. There are accessibility advocates who finally brought enough attention from main stream media that at least such widelly recognized sites and services are getting more and more accessible. However I am afraid on the linux desktop we are not quite ready for this. See for example these two blog articles primarily targetting windows users and try to use your knowledge about orca and firefox to try making some good use out of this. I understand you will need to change some usage patterns however the access should get at least comparativelly equal if not the same. 
http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/05/03/wai-aria-for-screen-reader-users-an-overview-of-things-you-can-find-in-some-mainstream-web-apps-today/
http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/07/08/accessibility-in-google-apps-an-overview/
Are there some relativelly easy to make improvements possible in this orca development cycle or is this too wide area to require additional funding and other kind of support?
P.S. I must say I am a bit jealous that we have such a way to go as compared to windows users on this however I think I can do more testing in order to try to improve the situation. 


Greetings

Peter

On 06.08.2014 at 08:07 B. Henry wrote:

This sounds very good. I bet it will help on some very interestng sites.
--
B.H.


On Tue, Aug 05, 2014 at 06:31:49AM -0400, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hey Al.

I just took a quick look at the demo course. What seems to be going on
is the following:

1. Native caret navigation is not working properly on that site. This
    is problematic for both Epiphany and Firefox. In the former case,
    Orca does not control the caret at all and relies upon native caret
    navigation working. In the latter case, Orca can control the caret,
    but it sees it is in ARIA content and concludes that it shouldn't
    control the caret for that reason. I'll see what I can do about this
    for Firefox.

2. Structural navigation is not working properly on that site in
    Firefox. The reason why is, again, Orca sees that it is in ARIA and
    disables structural navigation. I just committed a change to Orca
    master so Orca keeps structural navigation enabled even in ARIA.
    As a result, you should now be able to navigate the site in Firefox
    by using 'm' to jump amongst landmarks and then other commands to
    interact with the content there. This works for me for both text and
    playing the video.

Hope this helps.
--joanie

On 08/04/2014 07:00 PM, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:

Hey, Joanie.

Previous times I didn't enable caret navigation, but I just tried that.
  I got a little more information, but not much.  I tried to watch
several videos, but got only a few seconds of one.

The site I'm trying to deal with is

www.edx.org

and in particularly the course called Introduction to Linux or
something.  You need a login there, but it's free and no trouble to
get--at least, that was true a bit over a year ago.

Thanks for any help.

Al



On 08/04/2014 06:11 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hey Al.

Did you enable caret navigation in Epiphany by pressing F7? Also, is
there a particular page you're having problems with (in either browser)?

--joanie

On 08/04/2014 04:39 PM, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:

Greetings!  Also, sorry for some duplication for those who saw my
message on the Blinux list:  I should have put it here first.

Anyway, has anybody been able to use Orca with Epiphany?  I have vague
memories that somebody might have, but my several efforts have produced
almost nothing.  I tried it yesterday on an edx.org course page after
being unable to get to some course content via Firefox, but I got
nowhere.  Since one of the edx.org tech people suggested giving Epiphany
a try, I thought I should check with others, though I also told this
person of my experience.  (I note with gratitude that the edx.org tech
support folks seem to know at least a little about non-visual access
stuff, and have replied promptly to my inquiries.)

I'll be grateful for any pointers.

Al
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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