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Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" linux distributions anymore? was Re: Go to upper left and lower right corner in orca.

I agree, and hopefully the developers of the various blind friendly
distros are already doing that. However, I don't know that this will
eliminate the need for such distros. There are like 20 flavours of
Ubuntu for a reason and obviously tons of distros as well. I can see
things that would be nice in a blind friendly distro, that would either
never make it into a mainstream distro or take a while to get there. For
example, I'd think it would be cool to have Pidgin already installed,
Chrome with the ChromeVox extension, Emacs with Emacspeak and so on. I
don't see these necessarily ever making it into a main distro.
Obviously, none of this is needed, and there's no reason a blind Linux
user couldn't do all of this themselves, but flavours and distros aren't
always about need but about convenience and not duplicating effort.

BTW, it was brought to my attention yesterday that this discussion is
probably off topic for the Orca list and should be moved to a general
Linux accessibility list.

On 25/01/13 07:41, Daniel Barich wrote:

Ideally, I think we should put the accessibility improvements from
accessible distros in the mainstream distros.  The screen readers could
be made to turn on with simple keystrokes.


On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Bill Dengler <billkd314159 gmail com
<mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>> wrote:

    I think the problems are that documentation for orca is out of date
    and just horrible. I'll describe each point below :

    With Vinux, a user doesn't need to know to press control+s, it just
    comes up talking.
    A user should do some research before reinstalling their OS.

     Your instructions don't include how to get Speakup
    talking in the console.
    In debian, it works out of the box. In ubuntu, you
    apt-get install espeakup
    then at the console
    modprobe speakup_soft
    espeakup
    If you have a hardware synth, see the speakup site

     They don't include getting Emacspeak installed
    and working without any latency.
    use gedit, mousepad, nano, or vim. You can compile code on the
    command line. If you really see the benefits of emacs, you can use
    it with speakup or use xemax with orca.

    I don't think you get an accessible IRC
    client on stock Ubuntu.
    apt-get install pidgin(as root)
    or
    apt-get install epic4(as root)
    or
    apt-get install irssi(as root)

    These are just the things that come to mind. Of
    course, none of this may be important to you, but then no one needs to
    use Vinux or Sonar. They're just there for those who want some of the
    work done for them.

    On 24/01/13 16:31, Bill Dengler wrote:
    > Ubuntu/Debian out-of-box a11y has improved SIGNIFICANTLY over the past
    > few months. You don't need "accessible" apps anymore, the included
    ones
    > work beautifully in ubuntu and minimal work is required for Debian(the
    > only thing I can't get working is a talking login).
    > for ubuntu accessibility,
    > 1 - download the Ubuntu 12.10 or 12.04 ISO and boot from it.
    > 2 - listen for the system-ready sound
    > 3 - press CTRL+S
    > 4 - when you hear "welcome to orca", configure orca to your liking
    > 5 - press alt+tab
    > 6 - click the "install ubuntu" button
    > 7 - complete the installer
    > 8 - eject the DVD at the installation complete message
    > 9 - boot into your new talking system
    > for debian(gnome shell) :
    > 1 - download the latest wheezy debian installer from the debian
    > installer website
    > 2 - insert the CD and boot from it
    > 3 - press the following keys :
    > s tab space priority = low enter
    > so, press s, then tab, then space, then type "priority=low"
    without the
    > quotes, then press enter.
    > 4 - follow the prompts up to the set users and passwords step. For
    this
    > step, you will want to create the second user account(for x). Then,
    > continue following the prompts up to the "select and install software"
    > step, for this step, select :
    > debian desktop environment
    > SSH server
    > standard system utilities
    > other stuff if you want(I.E. web server)
    > 5 - proceed with the rest of the install then eject the CD and reboot
    > 6 - wait a few seconds(about 8 seconds on my SSD, about 30-45 for
    a hard
    > drive) for the system to boot
    > 7 - press the up arrow key until you hear the freedesktop bell sound,
    > then press enter.
    > 8 - enter the password of the second user you created, then press
    enter.
    > 9 - press the super key on your keyboard, type orca, then press enter.
    > 10 - press the super key on your keyboard, type gnome-control-center,
    > then press enter.
    > 11 - choose "universal access"
    > 12 - toggle the screen reader switch button to the on state
    >
    > On 01/24/2013 03:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
    >> I guess you're saying that Sonar and Vinux aren't needed, but that's
    >> always been the case. Vinux takes the work out of getting an
    accessible
    >> OS with a set of accessible applications. Of course, you could do the
    >> work the Vinux developers have already done, and there's nothing
    wrong
    >> with that, or you could take advantage of their work, and again,
    there's
    >> nothing wrong with that.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 24/01/13 14:05, Bill Dengler wrote:
    >>> Not needed anymore.
    >>>
    >>> On 01/24/2013 01:40 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote:
    >>>> Or perhaps Sonar.
    >>>> Happy hacking.
    >>>> Krishnakant.
    >>>> On 01/24/2013 11:24 PM, Bill Dengler wrote:
    >>>>> Ubuntu 10.04 is considered oldstable. If you want to stick to LTS,
    >>>>> you can upgrade to 12.04 or you just upgrade to 12.10. I think
    Vinux
    >>>>> is some kind of blind distro, which isn't required anymore.
    >>>>> Therefore, I advise you to completely wipe your drive and
    start with
    >>>>> a fresh, vanilla copy of either Ubuntu or debian.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Anders Holmberg
    >>>>> <anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>
    <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>>__> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>     Hi!
    >>>>>     Using orca 3.1.9 which i unerstand is pritty oldish.
    >>>>>     Can i upgrade if i have vinux 3.0.2 running ubuntu
    10.04.And how
    >>>>>     do i go about updating?
    >>>>>     /A
    >>>>>     23 jan 2013 kl. 21:40 skrev Bill Dengler
    <billkd314159 gmail com <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>
    >>>>> <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com
    <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>__>>:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>     Are you using orca 3.7x(Ubuntu quantal), 3.5(arch
    probably has
    >>>>>>     this), 3.4x(debian wheezy/sid), or something else? To
    find out :
    >>>>>>     1 - click the "about" button in the orca window, or run orca
    >>>>>>     --version
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>     Bill
    >>>>>>     On 01/23/2013 03:37 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
    >>>>>>>     Hi!
    >>>>>>>     I do think you missunderstand what i want. FIrst of all
    i can't
    >>>>>>>     find the settings you mentioned.
    >>>>>>>     I am using a pritty oldish version of orca due to the
    fact that
    >>>>>>>     i have vinux 3.0.2.
    >>>>>>>     which papenmeier has included in their displays.
    >>>>>>>     Using the el bar and pressing it upp till i hear it
    clicks two
    >>>>>>>     times.
    >>>>>>>     /AWhat i want is to jump to the top of the screen using the
    >>>>>>>     feature
    >>>>>>>     23 jan 2013 kl. 13:59 skrev Bill Dengler
    >>>>>>> <billkd314159 gmail com <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>
    <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>__>>:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>     In orca preferences, set the mouse to follow orca's
    >>>>>>>>     focus(don't remember where it is), then move your mouse
    to the
    >>>>>>>>     appropriate section of the screen.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>     On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Anders Holmberg
    >>>>>>>> <anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>
    <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>>__> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>         Hi!
    >>>>>>>>         In brltty when in a console i can use my braillex
    el 40 s
    >>>>>>>>         navigation bar feature to go to the first and last
    lines
    >>>>>>>>         of a window.
    >>>>>>>>         It can be done by pressing the navigationbar so that it
    >>>>>>>>         clicks twice.
    >>>>>>>>         However this feature should be implemented into orca or
    >>>>>>>>         can i define such things myself?
    >>>>>>>>         /A
    >>>>>>>>         _________________________________________________
    >>>>>>>>         orca-list mailing list
    >>>>>>>>         orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
    <mailto:orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>>
    >>>>>>>>         https://mail.gnome.org/__mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
    >>>>>>>>         Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more
    information on
    > Orca.
    >>>>>>>>         The manual is at
    >>>>>>>>
    >
    http://library.gnome.org/__users/gnome-access-guide/__nightly/ats-2.html
    <http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html>
    >>>>>>>>         The FAQ is at
    >>>>>>>>        
    http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions>
    >>>>>>>>         Log bugs and feature requests at
    http://bugzilla.gnome.org
    >>>>>>>> <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
    >>>>>>>>         Find out how to help at
    > http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__HowCanIHelp
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> _________________________________________________
    >>>>> orca-list mailing list
    >>>>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
    >>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/__mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
    >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
    >>>>> The manual is at
    >
    http://library.gnome.org/__users/gnome-access-guide/__nightly/ats-2.html
    <http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html>
    >>>>> The FAQ is at
    http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions>
    >>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
    >>>>> Find out how to help at
    http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__HowCanIHelp
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> _________________________________________________
    >>> orca-list mailing list
    >>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
    >>> https://mail.gnome.org/__mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
    >>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
    >>> The manual is at
    >
    http://library.gnome.org/__users/gnome-access-guide/__nightly/ats-2.html
    <http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html>
    >>> The FAQ is at
    http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions>
    >>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
    >>> Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__HowCanIHelp
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp>
    >>>
    -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail
    _________________________________________________ orca-list mailing
    list orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
    https://mail.gnome.org/__mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list> Visit
    http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual
    is at
    http://library.gnome.org/__users/gnome-access-guide/__nightly/ats-2.html
    <http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html>
    The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions> Log bugs and
    feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help
    at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__HowCanIHelp
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp>


    _________________________________________________
    orca-list mailing list
    orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
    https://mail.gnome.org/__mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
    Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
    The manual is at
    http://library.gnome.org/__users/gnome-access-guide/__nightly/ats-2.html
    <http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html>
    The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__FrequentlyAskedQuestions
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions>
    Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
    Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/__HowCanIHelp
    <http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp>




-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
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