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Re: [orca-list] Linux Accessibility: qt-at-spi 0.2 released

Hi, Frederik,

Thanks for the tip on the environment variable you use for gnome apps
in KDE.  I will see about posting a write-up to the wiki pages you
linked to as well as filing some bug reports.  As for copying the
kde-accessibility list, excluding them from this thread was not
intentional and is now remedied with this message.  Thanks for
pointing that out.

Regards,
Alex M

On 3/15/12, Frederik Gladhorn <gladhorn kde org> wrote:

On Thursday 15. March 2012 09.16.26 Alex Midence wrote:

Hi.

I've been testing KDE and can verify that there are some things that
are still in need of work with regard to accessibility.  However, I
found the following to be true:

Setting the menus to "classic" in kde renders the application menu
accessible with alt f1
Most utilities not requiring text input such as the music players, the
file managers and system customization utilities work rather well.
Applications such as Kate and Kopete which have text entry areas did
not work well for me.  If accessed from Gnome, they crashed and the
KDE crash handler would come up.  If they didn't crash and I typed a
line of text say:

#include <iostream>

and went left or right with the arrow keys, tried to use flat review
or on the numpad or did anything else to review what had typed, I'd
get dead silence and the thing would eventually crash.


I'd be happy if you could add information to this wiki page:
http://userbase.kde.org/Accessibility/Application_Overview

Kate's text area will not be accessible before KDE 4.9. It looks similar for
Konsole. Qt Creator needs some patches in Qt, most likely they'll hit Qt
4.8.2
which will also still take a few months still.



Other apps like Korganizer, Kwallet, and the package manager front
ends had sporadic performance.  This means that some areas were
accessible and others were not.

Here it would be interesting to either add information to the wiki I
mentioned
above, or if it's just small things, start filing bugs. bugs.kde.org is the
right place. For many things the fix is very simple but these applications
were
never tested with accessibility in mind. Please help us learn and
understand.



In some of my experimenting, I launched some of the KDE apps from the
Gnome-terminal so I could observe some of the output from at-spi and
company.  In cases where multi-line text entry areas were not being
spoken, I got messages refering to problems with children of objects.
I wish I had the exact output lines handy so I could forward them to
the list.

Lastly, and most disturbing of all, in my opinion, I tried a few
things based on some questions which Krishnakant had posed in an
earlier e-mail.  I launched previously accessible applications like
Libreoffice, Gedit and Firefox from within KDE using the alt f2 run
application dialog and the application menu reachable with alt f1.  In
both instances, these  applications didn't read at all.  Why this is,
I do not know but, I wonder if it's not tied with the problem qt apps
have in making children of objects accessible.

KDE's desktop Plasma uses a technology (QGraphicsView) where currently no
accessibility implementation exists. That is why neither alt-f1 nor alt-f2
will currently be read.


I wonder if the fact
that these applications are being brought up from KDE using the KDE
window manager would somehow turn them into children of that window
manager and its inaccessible properties are inherited by its child
objects.  I could be totally wrong here since I very dimly understand
the relationship between objects in a GUI at this level but, it's a
speculation I've been tossing around in my head for a few days.  To
really put the icing on the cake, I also noticed that the
application-specific  orca preferences dialog either could not be
brought up or could not be read from within any QT aplication I pulled
up either in Gnome or KDE itself.


Applications inherit no accessibility state. I usually test in an KDE
environment. There can be two things that change that I can think of.
One: an environment variable is not being set, I don't know enough about how
Gnome a11y works, but I need to export GTK_MODULES="gail:atk-bridge" for
Gnome
apps to work in a KDE environment.
Second: the style can change. There are attempts to style Gtk applications
with the Oxygen style of KDE. Depending on the implementation this might
actually render them inaccessible. I do not thing this is the case though.

So most likely there are just some settings/environment tweaks that get set
for Gnome but not for KDE (yet).

So keep pushing and tell people what is needed. I would also appreciate if
you
used the kde accessibilty mailing list to show kde people that you are
interested.

Cheers
Frederik



Sorry about the data dump.  Been meaning to come on here and post for
the last few days but my work has really picked up and I have been
extraordinarily busy.  I'll be posting another e-mail later today to
this list, the kde accessibility list and the vinux-support list
containing the links to the multidesktop virtual machine I created
with Ubuntu 12.04 beta.  I thought it was going to be an html file
but, time forgives none and if I don't get around to posting something
today be it as simple as an e-mail with links and instructions, I fear
I never will.

Thanks.
Alex M

On 3/14/12, Luke Yelavich <themuso ubuntu com> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 04:33:34AM EST, hackingKK wrote:

Wow, this is a great news indeed.
So can we expect a fairly accessible kde desktop with Ubuntu 12.04?
Are we going to get all these wonderful updates into kubuntu?
If not, I guess at least we can have qt atspi bridge into Ubuntu for
running qt apps?


Whilst some bits of KDE may be accessible with the latest QT at-spi
bridge,
there is no certainty that KDE will be usable with orca, particularly
with
regards to keyboard navigation.

Luke
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html The
FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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